Daniel Nicart is a sales coach and business consultant at #SalesRemastered. He is also an expert at selling on the phone. In this episode of The Salesman Podcast, we dive into phone selling, how to get an advantage over the phone and the importance of “insider information”.
Featured on this episode:
Resources:
- SalesRemastered.Com
- Daniel’s LinkedIn
- Book: Way of the Wolf: Straight Line Selling: Master the Art of Persuasion, Influence, and Success
- Book: Expert Secrets: The Underground Playbook for Converting Your Online Visitors into Lifelong Customers
Transcript
Will Barron:
Do you want to know how to sell on the phone, how to negotiate on the phone, how to get through objections, how to get your mindset right and a whole lot more? Then this episode is for you.
Will Barron:
Hello, Sales Nation, and welcome to today’s episode of The Salesman Podcast. On today’s show we have Daniel Nicart, he is a sales coach and a business mentor. You can find out more about him over at the salesremastered.com. We’re diving into selling on the phone, negotiating, and a whole lot more. So with all I said, let’s jump right in. Daniel, welcome to the Salesman Podcast.
Daniel Nicart:
Thanks, Will, appreciate having me.
The Pros and Cons of Negotiating Over the Phone · [00:39]
Will Barron:
Glad to have you on. Okay. So negotiating over the phone, do sales professionals negotiating over the phone have an advantage or disadvantage to those meeting and negotiating in person?
Daniel Nicart:
Good question. I think they have a bit of both. They have a disadvantage because they’re not able to see the prospect in person. They, obviously, have to be prone to any excuse that the prospect can give them, as in, “I’m going into a meeting,” or, “I can’t take the call right now,” or, “Call me later.”
Daniel Nicart:
So they have just this whole plethora of, or this wider range of objections that they’re going to meet. And so it does take a specific approach, a different type of approach to spark interest as in you’re bringing value versus doing a general sales call.
Daniel Nicart:
And so depending on the inquiry, if you are doing an outbound or if it’s inbound there, in my opinion, there are two hats to wear. And you have to be fully engaged with not only the prospect’s intent, meaning what their driving force is in order to better engage with them, but to really read the scenario, if you will, just the momentum of the phone conversation, the tonality, or what have you.
Daniel Nicart:
So I believe that at the same time, though, it can be in an advantage for a salesman to be good at selling over the phone because it just requires that individual to make contact. And so if they’re able to make contact by phone, or by text, or by let’s say Skype, then they’re able to think outside the box rather than be forced to go and visit that specific location, and thus eat up more time from that salesman.
Will Barron:
Because it seems like there’s a balance here of clearly it’s easier to get someone on the phone, and you’ve got all the objections of setting a meeting and meeting someone in person anyway. And then there’s clearly objections and things that can crop up on the phone, and people can perhaps eject from that socially a bit cleaner than they can from just standing up, walking out of a room, and slamming the door behind them.
How to Prepare for a Sales Negotiation Over the Phone · [02:40]
Will Barron:
So when we’re talking about getting to the point of negotiating with someone on the phone, is there anything that we should do before we call? Is there any prep that we should do before we even ring that individual to mitigate some of the potential excuses or objections that they’ve got for negotiating at that time?
“When you’re in a call centre environment or you’re receiving inbound calls from past prospects, it’s very easy to bring in the emotional baggage from your past call. And so I think that it’s important that the salesmen really reset their mindset and just really go hyper focus within the prospect that’s in front of them. And I think that in itself will already set you levels ahead of your competition, primarily because you are engaged and listening with that prospect.” – Daniel Nicart · [03:24]
Daniel Nicart:
Yeah. Great question. I did a sales training last week for the newer licence agents who are coming onto my sales floor. And the sales training was called Gates of the Sale. And ultimately, what it acts is gate one through gate 10, for example, it reminds you of what specific phases of the conversation must be complete. And the very first gate was just a mental check, be mentally ready. And I think that plays an important role because when you’re in a call centre environment, and you’re receiving inbound calls from not only a call centre, but also past prospects, it’s very easy to bring in the emotional baggage from your past call.
Daniel Nicart:
And so I think that it’s important that the salesmen really reset their mindset, if you will, and just really go hyper focus within the prospect that’s in front of them. And I think that in itself will already set you levels ahead of your competition, primarily because you are engaged and listening with that prospect. And I hear it too many times or too often I see sales representatives just go in and they’re more like a closer mentality.
Daniel Nicart:
They’re very aggressive. They’re not being really considerate of the prospect. And until that prospect feels that you hear them or you’re actually engaged with how to help them, they’re going to view you as a “salesman.”
How to Reset Your Brain Every Time You Engage With a New Prospect · [04:25]
Will Barron:
Okay. So one, how do we get into this, I guess, neutral mood before we ring or positive mood, essentially, leave the last phone call or the last conversation behind, or the last five minutes of your sales manager kicking your ass because you’re not calling enough people? One, how do we leave that behind? And then two, you mentioned the two hats on them being scenario. How do we then once we’ve got on the call, start to understand where our prospect is and where their mindset is? Because it seems like there’s two battles here, getting ourselves right and then either influencing them to be in the right frame of mind or call them back at a better time.
“I think first and foremost, the salesman needs to realise that most of the prospects calling in, or even if it was an outbound call, the prospect themselves have no idea what’s going to happen next. Whereas, the salesman has a primary advantage of it being a repetitive process. And so repetition is key. It’s really understanding your scripting. It’s understanding your set of words to initially engage the phone conversation, but know it in a way where the delivery of your initial opening script is on autopilot. So, it’s coming out, but your awareness is paying attention to several other things.” – Daniel Nicart · [05:02]
Daniel Nicart:
Yeah. Absolutely. I think first and foremost that the salesman needs to realise that most of the prospects calling in, or even if it was an outbound call, the prospect themselves have no idea what’s going to happen next. Whereas, the salesman has a primary advantage of it being a repetitive process. And so my answer, I guess, Will, is that repetition is key.
Daniel Nicart:
It’s really understanding your scripting. It’s understanding your set of words to initially engage the phone conversation, but know it in a way where it’s your delivery of your initial opening script is on autopilot. So, it’s coming out, but your awareness is paying attention to several things.
Daniel Nicart:
It’s paying attention to the background of the prospect if they’re in a noisy environment. It’s paying attention to the tonality of the prospect. And so if the tonality is fast and in a rush, then you’ll have an idea of what type of engagement you’re about to have rather than a prospect who is more than willing to take the time to speak with the salesman because they have questions.
“A lot of salesmen believe the sale actually happens in the pitch. I’m a firm believer that it actually happens in the initial sales conversation because that’s where you’re able to extract the information that ultimately sells them in the second call.” – Daniel Nicart · [06:25]
Daniel Nicart:
And so reading both scenarios or environments is very important. But where it comes in handy in terms of resetting yourself, or getting back in that frame of mind is really just looking at that the initial sales conversation is actually where the sale happens. Where a lot of salesmen believe the sale actually happens in the pitch, I’m a firm believer that it actually happens in the initial sales conversation because that’s where you’re able to extract the information that ultimately sells them in the second or the second call, because I do a two-call close.
Daniel Nicart:
I believe that in our climate, at least within my industry, it’s important to set up a second call close for variable reasons for not just for the prospect as well as a salesman to fully absorb the content and the information gathered in the initial call. But it’s also important within my industry to make sure that all decision makers are present at the time of releasing your pitch or doing your sales presentation.
Factors That Determine The Likelihood of a Salesperson Closing a Sale · [07:15]
Will Barron:
Okay. So multiple things here. For the sale to happen, what’s going on in that conversation, and is the sale happening a light bulb moment? Is that a switch where we’re looking for the prospect’s mind to go, “Okay, I move forward with this.” And then the rest of it is just almost academic is just going through the motions is probably objections coming up just so they look like they’re doing due diligence, or is it not as clear cut as that?
Daniel Nicart:
Sure. Good question. So with a call centre environment, you have calls coming in from multiple sources, typically, from a call centre like a customer service department, which will do outbound calls. They’ll also accept inbound calls. And so you typically have three sources of leads: internet inquiries, mailer leads, which are basically mail solicitation, hits a homeowner and then the homeowner opens it up and then they respond back.
Daniel Nicart:
Well, that’s a different type of lead versus someone who actually fills out an online inquiry. Well, at the same time, those two are different from a prospect that you would engage with on an outbound call. And so I believe that when you’re at least able to understand not only the lead source, but have an understanding that every engagement really in the bare bones of it all is someone is on the other line looking to solve a specific problem.
Daniel Nicart:
And when they call in, from a prospect standpoint, whether it’s business consumer, or business to business, anytime there is an engagement with a salesman or what they perceive as a salesman, that individual will be on guard, ultimately, because society has wired us this way. Society, social media, TV, our elders, they’ve all wired us in a way to be scarce, to protect ourselves, and put up initial guards in certain scenarios.
Daniel Nicart:
One of those scenarios being in front of a salesman. And so I believe that the hack to it, if you will, is to engage with that prospect as a consultant, rather than a salesman. When you think back of when you actually engage with a salesman, you’ll be aware of how guarded you are of how you put a sense of you are trying not to give too much information.
Daniel Nicart:
You don’t want to show your cards because you’ll feel that you’ll be sold. Whereas, if you’re speaking to a consultant, for example, let’s say a doctor or an accountant, some sort of subject matter expert, there is a different engagement with that resource. So with a consultant, you’re under the impression that you’re speaking with a professional who can help you. And it’s important to relay that to the prospect or they’ll fill that they’re on guard, and it’ll be very difficult for the salesman to extract the right pieces of information to make a sale.
Daniel Nicart:
And so the first engagement, when it comes to… I’ll give you an example. I’ve watched many of your shows, and I know a lot of the individuals you interview, they all agree that objections, for example, is a very common thing that every salesman experiences in their engagement. And objections are cyclical.
Daniel Nicart:
They happen all the time, specifically, usually around the same exact time. And they’re usually the same. They may not sound the same, but they’re usually within the same bracket. Like, “I don’t have time,” or, “I’m not in the market,” or, “I’m okay with my servicer right now.” And they have these specific objections where if a salesman were to pay attention to them and actually make note of them, they’ll actually recognise that it happens around the same exact time.
Daniel Nicart:
And after so many attempts, the salesman has the advantage of reframing their script or their wording, so that they’re actually handling the objection before it even occurs. And so I have multiple training videos on my channel at Sales REMASTERED where I actually share… There was a week where I did outbound call generation. So every single day of every week I did, I released a 15, 20 minute video where I shared different tactics on how to generate sales on an outbound call. But then I did another week where I taught different techniques and strategies on inbound calls.
Daniel Nicart:
And these are two different lead types and two different engagements where if the salesman does not take consideration of their past experience from their past engagements, they’re naturally going to be cut off guard. And until the salesman actually adapts to that specific engagement, it’s always going to be a sale. It’s not going to be a consultation.
The Benefits of Tracking the Common Objections You Face When Selling on The Phone · [12:01]
Will Barron:
Are we talking real practically that we’ve got a notebook on our desk next to us, and every time an objection comes up, no matter what it is, we write it down. At the end of the week, we review it and then we ask ourselves, “Now, what’s the common similarities? How can I negate these before they come up?”
Will Barron:
Because if you are giving someone information that stops them asking an objection, you are literally adding value to them. You’re solving a bit of a problem, part the puzzle before it even crops up before they have to mentally process it.
Will Barron:
So are we literally writing all this down? And we’ve got like I’ve got here, big wad of paper that two or three years in, we’d note it down into five, six objections that always crop up. Is that the goal with this?
Daniel Nicart:
Yes, essentially, what you’re doing is you are mapping out your conversations so you know when specific objections pop up. And so probably a way to start your map is that maybe you draw a line right down the middle of a piece of paper, for example. And on the left hand side, you have your introduction call or your initial sales conversation. And then on the right hand side, you have your sales presentation or your sales pitch.
Daniel Nicart:
And along the left hand side, you would just simply notate what objections commonly occur. And so one of my objections that commonly occur is, “What’s your bottom line rate, or what’s your bottom line fee? I don’t want to give you any information, just what is your cost?”
Daniel Nicart:
And that’s something that we always have to overcome. And then as the sales conversation comes up, other objections will pop up like, “Oh, I can get it cheaper here,” or, “I don’t want to give my social security number.”
Daniel Nicart:
There’s certain objections that happen at certain points of your conversation that you can jot down. And you’ll notice that after a while, it really does narrow itself down to about three or four common objections. And then there will be another one which would be a little bit more advanced like what I call situational objections.
Daniel Nicart:
These are specific situational objections that only happen in specific situations. So they’re not as common as, “What’s your rate?” Or, “What’s your fee?” Or, “I don’t have time.” They’re actually specific to a pocket or a niche of maybe a particular product. And so those will only happen when applicable. For example, I have a script available on my website and it’s free, and it really enables the salesman to dismantle the guard and immediately take control of the conversation.
Daniel Nicart:
Whereas a lot of salesmen who are receiving inbound calls, for example, they’ll naturally give the mic back to the prospect. And what I mean by that is they’ll do their quick introduction, for example, to say, “Hey, my name is Daniel. It’s a great day at my company. How are you today?”
“When you start your conversation where you give the prospect the mic, whether you ask them how’s their day, or what are your goals, or how can I help you, ultimately, you give them the microphone. You’re putting them in the driver’s seat.” – Daniel Nicart · [14:53]
Daniel Nicart:
And that’s giving the microphone back to the prospect and ultimately setting the precedent and the momentum of that conversation. And what I found is that when you start your conversation that way where you give them the mic, whether you ask them how’s their day, or what are your goals, or how can I help you? Ultimately, you give them the microphone. You’re putting them in the driver’s seat.
Daniel Nicart:
And so if that prospect says, “Hey, I don’t have any time to answer your questions. I’m just looking for your lowest rate. I’m just looking for your lowest price. Give me that information. I’ll let you know if I’ll go forward with this phone conversation.”
Practical Advise on How to Handle Some of the Most Common Sales Objections · [15:19]
Will Barron:
Well, let me jump in here a second, Daniel, because they’re two common objections that even in medical device sales that I’ve come across. So perhaps you can give us real practically how you overcome them of what’s the lowest price? As in someone, for me, in dealing with the NHS in the UK, it would be a procurement officer just shopping for the lowest price, because someone’s already won the business.
Will Barron:
They just need to build a case around it to show that the price is already acceptable. So that’s one objection I’ve come up against. And then the other one of, I can’t read my own handwriting here. So you’ll have to remind me. So there was the, “What’s your lowest price?” And then, okay. I think it was the base rate you were talking about as well?
Daniel Nicart:
Yes. Yes.
Will Barron:
So [crosstalk 00:15:59] how would you very practically, personally, I guess, overcome both of those?
Daniel Nicart:
Sure. So those are actually questions that I come about. It’s just worded differently from the prospect, such as, “I’m happy with my current vendor or my servicer.” And that would be similar to the objection that you have. But I would not be blocked by that objection, unless I allowed myself to be blocked by that objection. And so my scripting, for example, would be like, “Hey, Will, I appreciate you giving me a call. What I’m going to do is just ask a few basic questions, and this is going to let me know if I can even provide any benefit. If I can, I’m going to show you exactly what I could do. But if I can’t, at least maybe I’ll point you in the right direction,” and then go right into the qualification. Right. Or the application.
Daniel Nicart:
And what I’ve found is that whoever you’re speaking with, whether it’s a business title, or it’s a consumer, you are dealing with someone who’s very appreciative of their time. And if you can become emotionally aware to what drives that particular person, then you can have enough emotional intelligence to read what motivates that person.
Daniel Nicart:
And what I’ve found is that no matter what, typically, when a consumer or business engages with a vendor or salesman, what they’re thinking is, “How can I get this person off the phone with me? “How can I get them out of the way? How can I make some random excuse to get this person off the phone?” Until that salesman has inside information, and I think that would be something that you can use to get in.
Daniel Nicart:
So for example, if you were selling medical devices or medical equipment to a company, and I was privy enough to know that that company was to use a competitor of mine, I would script my wording in a way where it’s like, “Hey, you know what? I know you’re doing business with this other vendor. Just real quick, I’m just going to make sure if I can provide any different value than what you’re accepting now. Because what I have found are those who used to work with them chose me because of A, B, and C.”
Daniel Nicart:
And so what you’re doing is you’re just, you’re doing research, of course. You’re gathering intel on your particular prospect where you’re knowing their sweet spots, for example. So if they went to this particular vendor, but they didn’t like their delivery time, or they didn’t like the customer service, or they didn’t like certain bits about that particular vendor. And these are, this is stuff you can gather online. You can gather information online very easily from their reviews and companies that work with them in the past.
Daniel Nicart:
And you can use that as your way in. But when you come in with value, there’s always saying, always bring value. It’s no longer about always be closing. It’s always bring value. Well, that value is inside information. The reason why reality TV, the reason why blogs are very popular is because it’s inside information.
“The reason why reality TV and blogs are very popular is because it’s inside information. You’re able to act like a fly on the wall and see things or learn things that you normally would not learn. And so if you’re able to figure out what inside information you have that your clients or your prospects would really appreciate just knowing, now that’s value. And that creates the bond where you become the go-to.” – Daniel Nicart · [18:41]
Daniel Nicart:
You’re able to act like a fly on the wall and see things that you, or learn things that you normally would not learn. And so if you’re able to figure out what inside information do you have that your clients or your prospects would really appreciate just knowing, now that’s value. And that creates the bond where you become the go-to.
Will Barron:
So if that, Daniel, is the hook that on the first 10, 15 seconds, the first few sentences we want to show the person that we’re calling that we have some kind of inside information or potentially we do. So for me, medical devices, it’d be, I’ve just been to the hospital next door. The surgeon’s doing things one way. You might like to know how he’s doing it as well. I’d use that every time I’d go anywhere because I had a couple of surgeons on my patch, special colorectal surgeons who are world class at what they were doing. So that’d get me in with every other colorectal surgeon.
How to Use Insider Information to Immediately Grab Your Prospect’s Attention · [19:40]
Will Barron:
I’ve just said about two minutes worth of there, how do we condense that down so that when you get on a phone call, it’s an immediate hook, it’s an immediate grab their attention? What’s the kind of phrases we should be saying? Or how can we frame that up? And do we pre frame this perhaps in an email to arrange the phone call? I don’t know. How is the best way to go about it?
Daniel Nicart:
Sure. It’s actually going to be against the norm. So it’s not going to be your traditional method. And what I mean by traditional method is sales representatives are taught a specific way. Some of them are even taught to be a little bit cheesy, meaning like, “Hey, if you’re in the market,” they have a specific tone about them. Right?
“You need to become emotionally aware of an engagement in itself. Meaning you are not looking at it as a transaction to generate a sale, you are simply looking at it as an engagement to communicate and find a problem. As a salesman, whether it’s business to business or business to consumer, we are problem solvers. And the inside information typically is in line with the problem solving. And even if it is not, we have to find a way to penetrate their attention span and generate the interest to attract more engagement to keep them on the call.” – Daniel Nicart · [20:36]
Daniel Nicart:
And that is somewhat the protocol. But if you are able to make noise in a different way, I’m confident that you can attract the business rather than chase it. And there’s just, there’s something about that understanding where you become emotionally aware of the engagement in itself. Meaning you are not looking at it as a transaction to generate a sale. You are simply looking at it as an engagement to communicate and find a problem. As a salesman, whether it’s business of business or business consumer, we are problem solvers.
“The world in itself is very noisy. There’s tonnes of alerts coming our way from email alerts, text alerts, IMs, billboards, pop ups, opt-ins, our managers, KPIs. There’s just so much data being thrown at us at any given time that we as humans have been wired to quickly process information, reject or accept. And what I’ve found to be easier to accept is when you have insight information, meaning that information is actually just to help you, it doesn’t sound like a sale.” – Daniel Nicart · [21:13]
Daniel Nicart:
And the inside information typically is in line with the problem solving. And even if it is not, we have to find a way to penetrate their attention span and generate the interest to attract more engagement to keep them on the call. And so what I found is that the world in itself is very noisy. There’s tonnes of alerts coming our way from email alerts, text alerts, IMs, billboards, popups, opt-ins, our managers, KPIs. There’s just so much data being thrown at us at any given time that we as humans have been wired to quickly process information, reject or accept.
Daniel Nicart:
And what I’ve found to be easier to accept is when you have insight information, meaning that information is actually just to help you, it doesn’t sound like a sale. And so let’s go and put that in examples. So one particular salesman can go about their prospecting and saying, “Hey, medical company, how are you? My name is Daniel. I’m with this medical company. And I just want to let you know I’m in the area, and I’d love to stop by and see if I can put you in the awkward state and pitch my services. I’d love to come by and put you on guard if that’s okay.”
Daniel Nicart:
And I think that prospecting is very, it sounds just like your competition. Whereas, if I were to contact that same prospect and say, “Hey, you know what? I’m actually in the neighbourhood, I’m going to visit one of my clients who actually used to work with,” let’s say let’s name that competitive company. “And while I’m there, actually I’m meeting with them, I’d love to stop by and introduce myself and tell you why they converted to us or started using us versus them. Really good insight information.
Daniel Nicart:
If anything, you just want to have it for your record keeping. If not, direct access to what the right path is.” Now, that just becomes inside information, but you’re in your way, on your way anyway. Right? And so it’s a little bit different in my realm, in my sandbox, I have consumers, homeowners calling in, or sometimes we call out. And there’s something where a consumer, if you give them the, and same thing can apply to even a business. If you give them the impression that no matter what, it’s coming anyway, like, “Hey, I’m going to send it out to you anyway. I just want to confirm your email address,” and you already have their email.
Daniel Nicart:
Say, “Yeah, I’m actually going to go and send it. My subject line will read Daniel with this medical company or Daniel message for you.” And they have the impression that it’s already on its way, it’s easier to accept as opposed to us asking if we can send it.
Examples of Where and How to Find Insider Information in Your Specific Industry · [23:38]
Will Barron:
Makes all sense. For everyone who’s listening now, Daniel, who’s going, “This sounds amazing. I’m going to do it right this second, but either I’m new to the job. And I don’t really have any inside information. Or I’ve been doing the job 20 years and due to the internet, all the content, all the information is out there.” What are some practical examples of “inside information” that the audience could be thinking about and trying to push into their own, as you described a sandbox, or their own vertical? What’s a piece of inside information perhaps that you’d give your customers when you want to hook them on a phone call?
Daniel Nicart:
Sure. So every company has their own resources, whether it’s a medical company or a finance company, there is resources that enables the salesman to do their job right. And sometimes it’s information could be anything from research, data gathering against competition. Or for example, my resource information would be comparable sales.
Daniel Nicart:
So I have access to information of how much the property across the street sold. And that’s not real privy information, or that’s not information that’s necessary given online. It is to some degree, but there’s just so much more information that I can gather from the resources that I’m given from my company. And so I understand this as being inside information because I have resources to data that can be very valuable to my prospect.
Daniel Nicart:
Same thing would be for credit. Everyone has a credit score. The credit reports is something that I deal with every single day. And the audience who are watching this show can maybe adapt it to something that they deal with every day. And we have to realise that that information is not necessarily public information. It’s not, we are subject matter experts for a reason. Whether you got a licence to sell your product, or you did research to sell your product, you are a professional.
Daniel Nicart:
And where let’s say credit port information where consumers can get information anywhere. But when it’s being given and relate in a way that’s applicable to them, it creates value. It’s not as generic. It’s actually a little bit tailor fit, it’s custom made. And so the information that I would use on a daily basis, or possibly even overlook and not share it with the prospect, I’m passing up on value and inside information to the prospect where they wouldn’t necessarily know the little random tidbits or random fun facts that we may take for granted every day in our daily workups or our pitch workups.
“Whatever you’re selling, even if you think you don’t know that much about it, you probably know more about it than the customer, the person buying, even more than the end user, because you do it every single day. These are all layers of value that if two widgets are exactly the same price, do the same thing, if you are just more interesting to talk to, that’s another layer to it all, they’re going to do business with you rather than this boring sard who’s just pestering them all the time.” – Will Barron · [26:30]
Will Barron:
Love it. So, there’s multiple layers to all this. There’s information that perhaps they’re just too lazy to go and Google and sort out themselves. A layer below that that’s got information that perhaps your company has gathered that might not be public. It might not be available to everyone else. And then, and I’m glad you said this. We are professionals. We are doing, whatever you’re selling, you, even if you think you don’t know that much about it, you probably know more about it than the customer, the person buying. Even more so than the end user, because you do it every freaking day. Right?
Will Barron:
You are in the deep end. You speed to customers. You’re seeing what their problems are. You’re hopefully solving some of their problems. So you can preempt problems. This is all layers of value that if two widgets are exactly the same price to do the same thing, if you are just more interesting to talk to, that’s another layer to it all, they’re going to do business with you rather than this boring sard who’s just pestering them all the time.
Will Barron:
I guess. That’s another layer of yours. Someone’s pestering them versus you are giving them, you’re taking care of them. You’re conscious of their time. You’re not spamming them. You’re not making them feel weird. Again, in an age where we live in a global economy, there’s lots of competition in most verticals for most products. You are the day difference. You are the thing separating the sale one way or the other, perhaps.
How to Boost Your Likelihood of Closing a Sale · [27:35]
Will Barron:
So with all that, perhaps they’re on the phone. The prospect is excited. We’re confident you get that little bit of a green, perhaps there’s a bit of adrenaline going. You know that a fundamental negotiation just about to take place, whether it’s terms, whether it’s delivery dates, whatever it is. And it’s happening over the phone.
Will Barron:
Is there anything other than collecting data, inside information, giving more value, all these good stuff that we’ve covered so far, Daniel, is there anything else that we can do to perhaps increase our influence to increase the chances of the negotiation being great for both sides? Essentially, increase our chances of closing the sale at this point?
“Your prospects will not know that you’re one month into the sales job. Your prospect will not know that maybe you just got out of a really bad conversation with an unhappy prospect or an unhappy client. The only way that the new prospect will know this is if we let them know. And usually we’ll let them know through our own insecurities. And so it comes out in a way where we are defensive. And we actually create the objections that we have to overcome.” – Daniel Nicart · [28:28]
Daniel Nicart:
Absolutely. I think that first and foremost, every sales professional watching right now must understand that we know what our background is. We understand our experience within this particular line of work. And that’s something that only we will know. Our prospects will not know that you’re one month on to the sales job. Your prospect will not know that maybe you just got out of a real bad conversation with an unhappy prospect or an unhappy client.
Daniel Nicart:
The only way that the new prospect will know this is if we let them know. And usually we’ll let them know through our own insecurities. And so it comes out in a way where we are defensive. And we actually create the objections that we have to overcome. Meaning that we are bringing in baggage, or we’re bringing in our insecurities that actually attract and manifest the objections in the roadblocks in our engagement.
Daniel Nicart:
And sometimes we’re not aware of this because we get caught up in our own heads. And so to answer your question, what are a few things that we can do? Number one is realise that your prospect, number one, if you’re doing it over the phone, they can’t hurt you. They can’t reach over the phone and actually physically touch you.
Daniel Nicart:
And also, because they’re not necessarily aware, one thing that they could do is because they’re not essentially aware of what’s going to come in your engagement or how the conversation’s going to work, remember that you are in the driver’s seat. So you control the engagement. You control the excitement. You control the tonality of that conversation.
Daniel Nicart:
Where I see a lot of sales representatives tend to fail or hit a lot of roadblocks and have a hard time in producing sales is because they treat every engagement as a sale. They don’t treat it as an engagement with a human being or just, or even if it’s a business, still, it’s a human being making the decision. Even if it’s a multi bill dollar medical device company, at the end of the day behind the decision making there’s an individual. There’s one person making that decision. And that individual is on guard to protect their status.
Daniel Nicart:
And that’s one of the reasons why a lot of us as salesmen tend to technically fail in sales, because we’re so worried about protecting our status that we try to protect ourselves from objections. And when we understand that no matter what, every engagement we have, and objection’s just going to come, we have to be aware of this and accept it. We will no longer be on guard. And that’s when our whole demeanour changes. We’re no longer playing on defence.
Daniel Nicart:
We’re actually on offence, meaning we’re there to help. And when you have that tonality, when you have that type of engagement, they sense that. And so if you have someone who’s on the phone and this goes back with pacing. There’s a strategy that I refer to as pacing. And I have my sales agents consider all the time because we deal with people of wide arrays of personalities. It’s just, you’re dealing with different type of personalities, different type of speeds, and momentums, and experiences.
“What I think has allowed my team to be so successful is that they’re constantly working on their emotional intelligence, meaning that they’re aware of what’s driving the prospect on the other side. And typically, it’s not rate or fees, and it’s not the objection they tell you. What it is, is that they’re guarded to ensure that they make the right choice to ultimately protect their status. They’re ultimately trying to protect themselves away from a salesman.” – Daniel Nicart · [31:32]
Daniel Nicart:
And what I think has allowed my team to be so successful is that they’re constantly working on their emotional intelligence, meaning that they’re aware of what’s driving the prospect on the other side. And typically, it’s not rate or fees. It’s not the objection they tell you. What it is, is that they’re guarded to ensure that they make the right choice to ultimately protect their status.
Daniel Nicart:
Whether it’s protect their status as a homeowner, protect their status as a business owner, they’re ultimately try trying to protect themselves away from a salesman. And so a few things that you can do besides just remembering that your prospect has no idea of what’s going to happen in engagement. You drive, you are more of a tour guide. Right? So if they’re following you, if you imagine interacting with a tour guide, that tour guide’s going to show you everywhere, all the attractions. They know what’s to come. They know what’s ahead.
Daniel Nicart:
And the people with the tour guide are following the tour guide. So if you keep it in that realm, whereas you’re going to, you may run into delays or issues if the tour guide never kept moving forward, they never kept moving to the attraction, but they just kept standing there and looking at you. Like any other questions? But they’d never moved forward.
Daniel Nicart:
And so we have this chance where we can become a tour guide or a consultant, and show them the right path to get to the desired destination. Or we could just stand there like a sales rep at Target or Best Buy, a retail outfit that just comes up to you and says, “Hey, can I help you find something?”
Daniel Nicart:
There’s something about that sound. There’s something about that tone that makes us want to say no. Not too many people like, “Yeah, absolutely. Can you help me find this?” And because they’re engaging with a salesman. Same thing with if you’re on a car lot. You see the salesman walking up to you. You get this feeling as a consumer like, “Oh no, I’m going to get sold. I’m going to be solicited.” We have to be emotionally aware of what that is, so that we can connect with that individual on a different level and dismantle that guarding.
How Much of Success Selling on the Phone Comes Down to Mindset? · [33:38]
Will Barron:
So, final thing on this. And this will hopefully wrap up the show here, because I think I know we’ll go with it, Daniel. If you had to put a percentage on it, how much of success, selling on the phone, negotiating over the phone is down to the frame, your mindset, the fact that you weren’t in a horrible mood and in traffic this morning and couldn’t leave it behind?
Will Barron:
How much of it, how much of a percentage of success on the phone is dealing with all that? And how much of it is some kind of magical script, or some kind of hack, or something else, slightly more intangible that… I cover stuff like that on the show all the time, but how much of it is mindset? How much of it is the screen that you’re looking at as you read it off?
Daniel Nicart:
Sure. I think a lot of it has to do with mindset. On my digital course, the very first module is going to be specifically around mindset because it’s important to have the right discipline, have the right mental focus to overlook certain things. And what I mean by certain things is typically has to do with fear of engaging with a prospect, fear of being declined, or rejected.
“Just because your colleagues or your team are having trouble with a specific lead type, or they’re having a bad day, or they’re not as motivated as you, having the right mindset will keep you on your own track and not allow you to sway and do what everyone else is doing.” – Daniel Nicart · [35:00]
Daniel Nicart:
While at the same time, having enough mental fortitude and the right attitude to understand that even in a call centre or work environment, if your colleagues or your coworkers are having issues, or they’re venting, to have the right mindset to stay away from that. And actually still write your own ticket. Just because your colleagues or your team are having trouble with a specific lead type, or they’re having a bad day, or they’re not as motivated as you, having the right mindset will keep you on your own track and not allow you to sway and do what everyone else is doing.
Daniel Nicart:
Because the truth of the matter is that in any sales environment, you’re going to have different producers. You’re going to have producers that typically hover around the top consistently. You have producers that are around the middle and they’re just, they’re meeting quota, they’re doing just good enough to stay off the radar. And then you consistently have the individuals who are below par and below average.
Daniel Nicart:
And the trick is, how do I infiltrate the network that always hangs around the top? How can I mirror their actions? Not necessarily stop them and ask them to mentor you, but you just simply watch them. You network with people they network and you research them. And so we have within our area a clear example of how to properly do it. But what happens is maybe it’s easier to give into the lower level because it’s not as demanding.
“Sales is a mental game. It is a mental sport. It can ruin you or it can make you and develop you into a person that you want to be.” – Daniel Nicart · [36:25]
Daniel Nicart:
You don’t have to work as many hours. You can go home and go watch Netflix for a couple hours before you go to sleep. So the right mindset is going to continuously challenge you. It’s going to enable you to do things like a morning ritual, which is one of the strongest things that I would recommend to anyone who’s in sales, because sales is a mental game. It is a mental sport. It can ruin you or it can make you, and develop you into a person that you want to be.
Daniel Nicart:
Fortunately, sales is all communication. So even if you’re communicating with your wife, your spouse, your kids, or a business or consumer, it is a sale. And your intent behind that message, whether you want them to respond, react, comply, or buy, it is an engagement.
Daniel Nicart:
And so when we step back and realise this, then we’re able to open our eyes to understand how and why things operate the way they do, why people make decisions the way they make their decisions. And so my answer to you is it has to do a lot with mindset. But at the same, scripting and training will help you. They have a saying where it’s called, hustle, hustle like the mindset. Right?
Daniel Nicart:
Hustle will help you catch up. Whereas, training will help you keep it. And training is constant practising of your craft, whether it’s reading books, following great influencers online like Salesman podcast, at Sales Remastered or influencers who you feel will push you to that next level and have the right attitude to continue doing it, even though sometimes in your environment people are not following that same suit.
“Anyone and everyone buys based off emotion, but then will justify it through logic. And where I see a lot of sales presentations go south is because they focus on the price first, they focus on the logistics first and then they’ll go into the emotional side. So they’ll say, “Hey, I got this product for you. It’s $1,000, but it does this, this, and this.” The prospect only heard the $1,000. They didn’t hear anything that happened afterwards.” – Daniel Nicart · [38:24]
Daniel Nicart:
So it does take a lot about mindset and the scripting is really, word play in my opinion is very important because there are certain timing and ways that you could frame your delivery. Where for example, if I was pitching you, will, and let’s say you’re in the middle of a sales presentation, the placement of the fee or the cost of your service before you bring their emotional state to its peak level because anyone and everyone buys based off of emotion, but then will justify it through logic.
Daniel Nicart:
And where I see a lot of sales presentations go south is because they focus on the price first. They focused on the logistics first. Whereas, then they’ll go into the emotional side. So it’s to say, “Hey, I got this product for you. It’s $1,000, but it does this, and this, and this, and this, and this.” The prospect just heard the $1,000. They didn’t hear anything that happened afterwards.
Daniel Nicart:
So if you were just simply reverse that and say, and be emotionally aware to get their emotional state at a peak level, and then show them the cost or the price as the vehicle to get to that result, you’d have far more effectiveness in dealing with that engagement or concluding that pitch. And it all has to do with the presentation and the timing you of that sequence.
Will Barron:
Makes total sense. And with that last example, I really appreciate that as well, Daniel, in that I always think of it of if you say it’s $1,000 and then you start telling them why, they’re going, “Well, that’s $20 worth of value. That’s $30 worth value. That’s $200.” And they’re working backwards from that end result that you’ve already given them.
Will Barron:
Whereas you go the other way around, and as you alluded to then, we all know this, because we’ve all done it. We’ve all, rightly or wrongly, we’ve all bought stuff that perhaps we shouldn’t have. So we’ve been through this experience of getting excited. I nearly done it with a sudden new BMW the other day. I was looking at getting a BMWM4, do not need one. Tall waste of money. The car I’ve got at the moment is almost as fast, not to 60.
Will Barron:
And I was getting myself emotionally wrapped up in what an M4 means, that it’s going to, it’s just a bigger car, it’s more luxurious. There’s a lovely leather dash in it. And then as soon as you pull the emotion away from it, you go, “Oh no, wait. That 30 grand spend it on the business, keep growing. And then you can have whatever car you want in the future.”
Will Barron:
And I myself was getting wrapped up in this emotional roller. So clearly you can use this for the good or the dark side, I guess if you’re on the phone. But clearly getting that emotion wrapped up and getting them wrapped up and excited before price is even just considered is clearly important.
Resources That Will Help You Master the Art of Selling on the Phone · [40:33]
Will Barron:
And with that, Daniel, one question, mate. Are there any books, resources, and we could touch on your content in a second as well, books, resources, videos? Is there anything you’d recommend to someone who’s listening to this show who then wants to know more about selling on the phone, and getting better at that negotiation process?
Daniel Nicart:
Yes, absolutely. With regards to books and negotiations, I happen to be in the process of establishing a brand, which is the at Sales Remastered. So I’m now collecting information on the resources that we have such as YouTube, Facebook, social media, and how to fuse it in as a salesman to become a brand and create a community.
Daniel Nicart:
Along the process, it’s, to create content, I start to dive into the subject matter. And so I’m reading books right now. The current sales book that I’m on is from Jordan Belfort, which is it’s called The Way of the Wolf. And he’s the character behind Wolf of Wall Street. And everyone will have their own perception of him. Right? Like, “Oh, he was a drug dealer or a drug addict. And he did a lot of wrong to a lot of people.”
Daniel Nicart:
But when you break away what he did, ultimately, was create a process that was easy enough to have multiple people study and just follow. And what I appreciate about that book is his process called The Straight Line is it outlines and just tells you exactly what to do. Do you just take them straight to the goal where as a lot of salesmen are in the process of just more or less answering questions. Like, “Is there anything I could help you with? Is there any questions you have for me, or would you like to ask any questions?”
Daniel Nicart:
And the prospects, if they don’t have any questions or they’re, if they feel like it’s up to them, or they’re in the driver’s seat, they’re more inclined to take the alternative and stop the engagement altogether. And say, “Oh no, I’m okay right now. I’ll go and think about.” Because it’s easier for them.
“It’s our fiduciary duty to help our prospects and persuade them in a way that they tell us the information that we need to know to do right by them. Whereas, if we don’t know the information that will help our prospect, all we’re helping is ourselves. We’re helping ourselves make a sale. We’re helping ourselves hit a tier. We’re helping ourselves make a bonus. And we’re forgetting the true value of long term success in this business is that your prospect needs to feel taken care of, because when they feel that they’re taken care of and that they’re looked out for, that word spreads.” – Daniel Nicart · [42:48]
Daniel Nicart:
Whereas, the straight line, it just tells you to continuously take them towards the end. And you have to bring them sometimes. And I think that’s what sales is about is I share a lot of techniques on my channel, very persuasive techniques. And it’s not meant to take advantage of a consumer. What we have to do, it’s our fiduciary duty to help our prospects and persuade them in a way that they tell us the information that we need to know to do right by them.
Daniel Nicart:
Whereas, if we don’t know the information that will help our prospect, all we’re helping is ourselves. We’re helping ourselves make a sale. We’re helping ourselves hit a tier. We’re helping ourselves make a bonus. And we’re forgetting the true value of long term success in this business. And it’s that your prospect needs to feel taken care of, because when they feel that they’re taken care of and that they’re looked out for, that word spreads. And that word goes to their network, it goes to their family.
Daniel Nicart:
It goes to their friends. And now you are attracting business. But that is one book. And then another one, which is actually really interesting. There’s a book called Expert Secrets from Russell Brunson. You may have heard of the book. And what I found after reading that book is even though it’s set up in a way to create online marketing, it actually tells you how decisions are being made.
Daniel Nicart:
It tells you how to sell people through storytelling. And I think storytelling is obviously a fan favourite because it’s easy for a prospect to get engaged with a story. Not only that, but it’s just naturally human beings will be more attracted to hear about what other people went through. And that’s why reviews are popular. That’s why reality TV’s popular. You get to see a story.
Parting Thoughts · [44:40]
Will Barron:
So I will enter both of those books in the show notes is episode over at salesman.org. Side note of I actually interviewed Jordan not too long ago. It was the worst interview I’ve ever done the whole my life. And I assume it might, it’ll probably it wants to come out a certain day. So it’ll come out after your and Daniel. So I’ll link that in the show notes when it does as well. And the audience can make up their mind of how he is as a individual themselves after that interview. And with that, mate, tell us a little bit about Sales Remastered, where we can find it, where we can find out more about you as well.
Daniel Nicart:
Yeah, absolutely. So Sales Remastered, it’s available on YouTube. It’s available on Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat. LinkedIn is under my name, but if you go to salesremastered.com at the bottom of the home page, we’ll have all the social media links that it’s available on. As well as access to the free script that I was just sharing with you. And it has a lot.
Daniel Nicart:
It shares with you and the audience the strategy behind Sales Remastered. And again, as a full disclosure, the process and the strategies behind are very persuasive. I do make a disclosure that I trust in the audience to do right with the information and techniques that they learn to not use it for anything but goodwill towards a prospects, because it is information that will really captivate the attention and help you drive a message.
Daniel Nicart:
And depending on the integrity of that salesperson and the character of that salesperson, my only hope is that it gets into the right hands and it does good for the prospects out there and consumers out there. It’s very important to me. But Sales Remastered can be found on all social media platforms. I have a blog which I do write at salesremastered.com/blog, and it shares information.
“If you can understand how to engage, negotiate, and drive a message by phone, that is one of the absolute most powerful ways to sell. So in other words, if you could do it well on the phone, you’re going to be amazing in person.” – Daniel Nicart · [46:06]
Daniel Nicart:
I’m currently in the process of working on my digital content, which would be hosted by Kajabi. And it’s going to share with sales professionals all throughout the world how to properly negotiate over the phone. And if you can understand how to engage, negotiate, and drive a message by phone, that is one of the absolute most powerful ways to sell, because you’re not doing it in person. You’re actually engaging. So in other words, if you could do it good on the phone, you’re going to be amazing in person. And yeah, so you’ll be able to learn about all that at salesremastered.com.
Will Barron:
Good. Well, I’ll link that in the show notes, everyone who’s driving or at the gym at the moment listening to this. And well, Daniel, I want to thank you for the time. I want to thank you for, you’ve got a unique spin on some of this, which is interesting to me. So I appreciate that. You’ve obviously well thought this through, and with that, I want to thank you for joining us on the Salesman Podcast.
Daniel Nicart:
Thank you very much, Will. I appreciate it. Thank you everybody for watching.
