David Fisher is a sales expert who helps teams leverage digital influence to create human connections. On this episode of The Salesman Podcast, we do an experiment, David answers YOUR questions on networking in sales and business.
Featured on this episode:
Resources:
- David’s book: Hyper-Connected Selling: Winning More Business by Leveraging Digital Influence and Creating Human Connection
- DavidJPFisher.com
- David on Linkedin
- Book – How to Win Friends & Influence People by Dale Carnegie
Transcript
Will Barron:
Do you want to know how you can state upper mind, deepen relationships, and even build brand new relationships to people that you don’t know in specific accounts you want to get into? This episode of The Salesman Podcast is for you.
Will Barron:
Hello, sales nation. I am Will Barron and welcome to today’s episode of The Salesman Podcast. On today’s show, we have David Fisher. He is a sales expert. He is the author of Hyper-Connected Selling. He is a keynote speaker and he does a whole bunch of coaching and training as well. You can find out more about him over at davidjpfisher.com and today’s show answering some of your questions about networking, building relationships. And so let’s jump right in. David, welcome back again to The Salesman Podcast.
David Fisher:
Thank you for having me. I’m fired up.
Will Barron:
I’m glad to have you on. I’m glad that you fired up because today’s slightly different. The Daily Salesman. I guess I should explain this and plug it while there’s the opportunity is a daily sales email that goes out to listeners at the show. If you aren’t subscribed head over to salesman.email, type that in your browser, press enter, and you can jump in. So I quizzed the Daily Salesman subscribers. I asked them what they want to know from an expert like yourself, relationship building expert, sales expert, and a networking expert. And these are some of the questions that came back. So we’ll run through these, we’ll see how many we get through, and we’ll kind of dissect them as we go.
The First Step to Deepening Relationships With Existing Clients · [01:21]
Will Barron:
The first one is a chap who is trying to build and deepen a relationship that they’ve got with a customer. It seems like the perfect customer in that they are buying the product. They’re happy with it. They’re an end user. They’re consuming it, they’re using it, but they don’t really want to engage anymore with this salesperson. This salesperson sees this as a big, potentially bigger account, but they’re finding difficulty to kind of break through just the obvious questions and answers that the customer’s given them. So where should they start? Or should they even bother trying to deepen this relationship? And if they should try and deepen it, where should they start?
David Fisher:
Yeah, I think it’s worth spending time deepening the relationship just because you’ve got to a paying customer. Somebody who’s already engaged with your company, who likes what you have enough to give you money for it. I think the first suggestion, without knowing too many of the specifics, is that I would actually suggest that you pull back a little bit. One of the things, think about this on a purely human level, one of the things we do when we really want something is we try harder, right? So we go, oh, they don’t seem to want to engage with me. I’m just going to email them more or I’m just going to call them more. When you’re in high school, it doesn’t work if that’s a girl you like, and it doesn’t help in the business world if it’s a client you want a stronger relationship with.
David Fisher:
What I would actually suggest is pull back a little bit and just continue to have a presence. It might require some social media work, sending an article towards them every once in a while on LinkedIn or Twitter. It might be just giving them a quick phone call and leaving a voicemail just every once in a while. I think the other thing you can do is in those interactions that you do have, try to do a little more listening, as far as the people that you’re actually interacting with. So the points of contact you have with that company, what can you do to get to know them as people beyond just the fact that they’re buying from you? Because one of the ways in, I think you have, is going to be connecting on, on some non-business topic and then being able to bring that back to business.
David Fisher:
A story you’ve shared before is the surgeon who liked boats, right? So it was the idea of not going, Hey, I’m just going to keep pounding that customer. I’m going to actually find out what they like as a human, and then come back to the business when appropriate. So you got to have a little bit of a longer term perspective, I think, in this situation.
How to Stay Top of Mind Without Becoming a Nuisance with Existing Clients · [04:10]
Will Barron:
So it’s not chasing them because that then, which I’ve experienced in high school many times, makes you look desperate, crazy. And that is not attractive to someone. You almost want to, if you are the prize, if you are that valuable, people will come to you over time. But to achieve that, you got to stay top of mind, right? Which is the emails and the social media touches. Is there a, to get even more practical in this, is there a framework? Is there a structure? Should it be one post a week? Should it be quarterly? There’s probably science on the back of this that shows how long it takes for someone to drop out top of mind. But from your experience, David, is what kind of cadence should we be looking for here with a happy customer, just to stay top of mind with them?
David Fisher:
Right. Well, I think there’s two parts to this. One is going to be your regular social media presence. I think that there’s a lot of really cool things happening with LinkedIn and Twitter, Facebook, all that stuff, but whatever platforms you have to connect with this person, make sure you’re there regularly, not aimed specifically at them, but again, just having a presence. And that can be for example, on LinkedIn, maybe two or three times a week at most. I do think that as far as reaching out to them specifically, if you’ve already had a relationship with them, you don’t want to be too intense, at most once every other week. I think you could actually go once a month with an email, and probably once or maybe twice a quarter with a quick phone call, but that’s with an existing clients already. So that’s kind of where I’d go on a practical level with that.
Will Barron:
Interesting. Maybe there’s value then in, we’re going sorely off topic here from the question, which is good.
David Fisher:
We knew that would happen.
Staying Top of Mind Can Be as Simple as Calling Up Your Customers Once Every Quarter And Checking Up on Them · [06:00]
Will Barron:
Should we be, because this is a real practical thing that we could stick in our diaries once a quarter, should we spend two days a quarter literally calling all our best customers just to say, Hey, how’s it going? Just thinking of you. I don’t want anything, don’t need anything. Just want to make sure you are doing okay. And the reason I ask this is, in a bit a backstory of one of my old customers in medical device sales of, I won business by essentially just sticking my head into this certain surgeon’s operating room. Every time I’d go into the operating theatre, I’d stick my head in, say, his name is John Beard. John, how’s it going, mate? And he’d be like, fine. And then there’d be an awkward silence. And then I’d leave. That ended up winning me about 2 million quids worth of business in the end, because he never saw his rep who was supplying him from my competitor for literally months and months and months on end.
Will Barron:
And all it took four seconds of and some awkward silence every time I did it, for me to kind of put my head in, and that showed him that I, it’s my local hospital. So I was in there quite regularly. I was going back and forth. I was dealing with the… He was a general surgeon and I was dealing with a gynaecologist who was in the theatre next to him. And it didn’t cost me anything. It wasn’t particularly skillful. It wasn’t some kind of crazy manipulation tactic or NLP or social selling, or I wasn’t putting ads against him tracking him online. I just literally stuck my head in there as I said. So should we be focused? And is this a practical thing that we should all put into play that once every quarter we spend a day or two or an afternoon, whatever it takes just to ring round our five, 10, 15 best customers and just check in with them?
David Fisher:
Absolutely. And I think you can even make, it’s actually one of the things I’ve built my business on is exactly that idea. And I don’t think you even have to make it as complex as taking a day or two in a quarter. You probably have a CRM system that you’re using to go after prospects, go after new customers. After they’re a customer already, use that same platform, create a task or whatever your platform calls it to call that person in three months or two months, however you want to do it. Some people, it might be every six months. Some it might be every two, some once a quarter is fine, and just have it pop up every three months. And so you don’t have to again, take one whole day. It can just be one or two calls a day.
David Fisher:
And in fact, what I suggest is everybody has that dead time where just their brain shuts off and they should be working more, but they just don’t have it in them. They don’t want to pick up the phone, talk to another stranger again. For me, 3:30 PM central time. My brain shuts off for at least a good half hour. Use that time to call those people. When all you’re really doing is saying, Hey, it’s D Fish calling. I hope everything’s good. Just want to see what’s going on in your world. A lot of times, you’re not going to talk to them. It’s just a voicemail. They’ve heard your voice, which is great. But again, this is not, it’s not super sexy, but you keep planting that seed and it might be in a year, two years, or the next week that you actually get something from it. So I think that’s a huge opportunity to invest a small amount of time for a lot of payback.
The Benefits of Staying Top of Mind in Sales · [09:15]
Will Barron:
For sure. And before we move on to the next question, it seems that this is potentially a good opportunity to stay top of mind with accounts that you’re trying to break into as well, because inevitably, and I’ve done this, I’m sure you’ve done it as well. I don’t want to put it on you, but I’m sure you have that you screw up, right? And if you are top of mind and someone can ring you before they get a chance to ring the person who screwed up, or they’re still mad at the person that screwed up, you then immediately, it’s a buying signal. It’s a change event. That’s the opportunity then that you’ve had to work your ass off for maybe, or maybe it depends on how many calls you’re doing, I guess. It depends how big your market is, but you’ve put in potentially a little bit of work over a couple years to get there. But that is an opportunity that’s gold, right? For closing a deal.
David Fisher:
Oh, absolutely. There’s always the saying, when you’re chopping down a tree, which stroke of the axe is the one that chops it down the first or the last? Well, they’re all important. So you got to make sure you’re putting that investment in so that you can get that phone call and close the sale when somebody else messed up.
Skills You Need to Develop to Become Better at Business Networking · [10:20]
Will Barron:
Okay. Right. Next question. What skills do I need to develop? They’ve listed some examples here of conversation, skills, industry knowledge, the ability to ask better questions. What skills do I need to develop? Or what’s the biggest bang for buck skills I need to develop to become better at business networking?
“People are saying that technology is going to save us, but I think what you are going to find is that the people that have the best social skills are going to be irreplaceable. They’re going to be relevant and they’re going to be successful.” – David Fisher · [10:57]
David Fisher:
All right, do we have a couple hours here? I wrote a few books on it. No, that’s a really good question. And I think that we are in a time where there’s more and more technology in the business world. People are saying that technology is going to save us, but really I think what you are going to find is the people that have the best social skills are going to be irreplaceable. They’re going to be relevant and they’re going to be successful by the way, just as a side note, a great book that just came out on this, that’s not mine, is called Humans Are Underrated by Jeff Colvin, highly recommend it. But one of the biggest places I suggest people to start is in really assessing your interpersonal communication skills, like your ability to sit down with another person face to face and have a conversation.
David Fisher:
We often think that, of course I’m good with people, because we’ve done it our whole life. But really think about that. If you are talking to a stranger, are you making eye contact? Are you asking relevant questions? Are you making them feel comfortable? Human beings are great at building empathy with one another, which is simply just the ability to kind of get in the brain of the person you’re talking to. We do that through a lot of subconscious stuff that’s happening. We see body language, tone, eyes, facial expressions. But really assess, am I good at that? Where are my failings? Do I need to ask better questions? Do I need to speak slower? That was one of my issues.
David Fisher:
When you’ve done that assessment, that’ll give you two or three good places to start. I don’t think industry information is necessarily, or knowledge is the place to start, because we can always go to our phones. And I’ve was taught this early. I still teach to people. If you don’t know the answer to a question, that’s okay. You just say, I don’t know. That’s a great question. I will find out for you. But really being able to sit in a space, you mentioned those awkward conversations that you’d have with the surgeon. If you can sit there and be awkward with somebody for three to five seconds, that’s a huge skill. And it usually gets you past to the non awkward part.
“Any great salesperson you’ve met, any great sales leader you’ve met, any great human being you’ve met, it’s not because they know a lot of stuff. It’s because of the way they interact with you and the way they make you feel.” – David Fisher · [13:13]
David Fisher:
Those are the things I think you want to start looking at. It’s hard to quantify them and that’s why we often don’t want to look at it, but any great salesperson you’ve met, any great sales leader you’ve met, any great human being you’ve met, it’s not because they know a lot of stuff. It’s because of the way they interact with you and the way they make you feel. So I think that’s really where you should put your focus if you’re looking to build your skills.
Will Barron:
I think you’re the first person to go on the show, and this, I’m a hundred percent on board with this, the point across that social skills, perhaps difficult to learn, take time to learn. It’s a huge differentiator. You want to do business that people that you know, like, and trust. Specifically, you want to do business for people that you like, and you want to spend time with, especially if it’s a long deal cycle, you don’t want to be doing it with some sales nerd or some engineering nerd. You want to be around someone who’s charismatic. Someone who’s fun to be around who you can go out for a restaurant. You can go to a meal with and discuss business, and it’s not going to be kind of awkward.
Will Barron:
You’re the first person who’s put that ahead of kind of industry knowledge and you know, and I appreciate it. I’m not trying to kind of, I’m not trying to put words in your mouth here, but I agree with what you were saying of, if you don’t know an answer, most of it is going to be on your phone. And this has never happened before in the whole of society. Why should we, why are we wasting time processing things, learning things, memorising things? I think it might be even Einstein has a quote alongside the lines of, Never memorise anything you could read in a book.
David Fisher:
Right. He didn’t know his phone number. Yeah. He didn’t know. He’s like, I can look up my phone number. I don’t need to know that.
Will Barron:
Well, it’s, and again, off tangent here and I won’t dive too far into it, but it changes medicine of you don’t need perhaps… A computer could perhaps, and this happened last year, a computer diagnosed a tumour that a series of doctors completely missed using different imaging that the doctors basically didn’t have their hands on. And so you still want to doctor to go back over it, double check it, deliver that information to the patient, but that’s probably the going to be their value in the future. As computers get better at diagnosing at calculating at manipulating data results to show certain things, the skill for a doctor is probably going to be the one-on-one time and the kind of getting the patient okay with whatever’s been told.
Will Barron:
Probably the same for sales. I imagine at some point that you’re going to be able to get your AI. It’s going to talk to this AI. It’s going to say, you’re going to make this much revenue if you go together, and then you need two individuals, a buyer, a seller to then go back over, refine things, do the negotiation, see what’s best for the organisation and the mission and the purpose and all this stuff that we layer on top. And so these skills are ultimately crazy important.
Resources on How to Build Charisma and Become Better at Social Interactions · [15:57]
Will Barron:
Are there any resources that you can point to on this? And the reason I ask is I’m reading a book. I think it’s called The Charisma Myth. The book’s average, but the first few chapters basically broke down what charisma was. You don’t need to read more than the first two chapters, broke down what charisma is. And it blew my mind that it’s, there’s a framework for it. And it’s not all that complicated. And when you know the framework, you can see charisma in the likes of [inaudible 00:16:17], in Bill Clinton. Donald Trump, for example, has part of the puzzle, but doesn’t have other bits of it. So he’s awkward and aggressive and weird. He doesn’t have the warmth element to it. So are there any books or resources you can recommend on how to, other than your own, obviously, that help us become more social other than just trial and error?
David Fisher:
Yeah. No, that’s a great question. I got to throw my first book in there, Networking in the 21st Century. But I think if you want to look at books, it’s an oldie, but a goodie of How to Win Friends and Influence People, was a seminal one for me. Keith Ferrazzi’s work and I got to give him credit because his was the first networking book I ever wrote or, or read, excuse me. 10, 12 years ago, which inspired me to write a book later on.
David Fisher:
This will sound really strange, but if you want to really look at the best resource for getting better at this, it’s doing it. So what I often encourage people, and this is especially if you are a younger sales person or just a younger professional in general, look for opportunities to practise interpersonal communication skills in the real world. Because I don’t think that technology has destroyed a whole generation’s ability to interact, but you have so much more time if you’re younger, that you grew up with your phone, with screens, that you just don’t have much chance to practise.
David Fisher:
So find a way, whether that’s getting involved in a nonprofit organisation, whether that’s through your work, focusing on more in person sales meetings, whether that’s going to networking events, not as a way to get business, although that’s a nice side benefit, but use as a chance just to practise this verbal repartee, this ability to empathise with another human being. And by the way, I don’t want to say that. I want to make sure it’s clear. Having knowledge and knowing what you’re talking about is important, but it’s table stakes. That’s not what’s going to actually create success for you. And I think you’re exactly right. Even with doctors, if you can have a computer that can diagnose cancer better than any doctor, that’s great. I still want a human being coming in and telling me about it, right? Not a robot. So those would be my, the places I’d start.
Will Barron:
And just to double down this for a second, I feel like the mobile phone, cell phone and the internet both gives and takes on this front. So I’m a millennial, kind of top end of it. But I feel it’s a huge advantage. And I’ll use, I’ve started going clay pitcher shooting over the past few months, as an example here. So it’s a club. You go, you have to do a bunch of lessons before they’ll let you loose, basically, with a shotgun, which is rightly so. Then you go to the club days and it’s all organised. And you go out with different people, and it’s different groups, and there’s loads of bunch of characters there. The main reason I’m going other than it’s fun, it’s really exciting to blow stuff up. And it gives you a moment of peace, the way that you’re shooting that you can’t be stressed. You can’t be overthinking it otherwise you miss every time.
Will Barron:
Other than that, there’s a whole tonne of range rovers in the grounds. There’s a whole tonne of nice cars, a whole tonne of entrepreneurs, business people to mingle and spend time with. So with the mobile phone, I’ll go in, I’ll be chatting to everyone, so typical social skills there. As soon as I get in my car to jump on the way home, I’ll stop for five minutes. I’ll write down everyone’s names. I’ll Google them to see if I can see what company they own or work for. And that gives me then this document. I think the programme I use is called Simple Notes, and it just, it syncs across different platforms, so you can catch up on your computer, your phone, whatever it is. And I’ll fill it out, and the next time I see them, I know more about them than what they know about me, because they haven’t done this extra level of research.
Will Barron:
Not that they have to. I’m not expecting it. But then they are, how to, almost subconsciously grateful that clearly I’ve done a bit of homework on them and it makes them feel special. And it’s no difference from selling to surgeons and catching someone’s name. And then next time you see them, you ask them about boats or whatever it is to people in general. It’s built a whole bunch of relationships with me at this shooting club now that at some point will probably play some dividends. And it was, I went to this club rather than playing golf, essentially to meet old men and women who have retired, who are doing well, that I can just get inadvertently mentored from. So it’s not just business, right? There’s applications for this elsewhere.
“Technology should integrate into your relationship building in the real world, right? It doesn’t have to take away from it. It does take away if you just hide behind it. But if you can use that to find out more information and to move the relationship along faster, that’s brilliant.” – David Fisher · [21:19]
David Fisher:
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I even just suggesting to, if you’re in sales, every time you meet somebody, go look them up on LinkedIn. It’ll take you two seconds, and put a note in there about something that you have in common or something that you found interesting. But yeah, I think technology, one of the things I talk about all the time is technology should integrate into your relationship building in the real world, right? It doesn’t have to take away from it. It does take away if you just hide behind it. But if you can use that to find out more information and to move the relationship along faster, which is exactly what you are doing. That’s brilliant.
Will Barron:
Okay. So I don’t know about brilliant, but we’ll, I’ll humbly-
David Fisher:
I’ll say it. You’re brilliant.
LinkedIn Prospecting and How to Change Random Connections Into Meaningful Relationships · [21:45]
Will Barron:
I’ll humbly reject that. So talking about LinkedIn, quite an open ended question here. And I chose this one specifically because of that. What do I need to do on LinkedIn to change these from random internet connections to relationships that actually drive revenue?
“Make sure what people see on your LinkedIn profile, their first impression is of you as a salesperson who helps people like them. It’s the foundation. So many salespeople want to skip over that and it screws them.” – David Fisher · [22:46]
David Fisher:
That’s a great question. There’s a lot of different things you can do. There’s a lot of ways of approaching this. I think part of this does depend on industry, what you’re selling, who you’re engaged with. I tell everybody, the first thing you really need to do is go into your LinkedIn profile and look at it as a prospective client would, right? As a customer would. What are you sharing? And are you talking about how you help people or about all the sales awards you want and how cool you are? ‘Cause they don’t care about that. What they’re, this is one of the biggest opportunities you have for creating an online, personal brand around your selling. So that’s the first thing you got to do is make sure that what they see, their first impression is of you as a salesperson who helps people like them. It’s the foundation. So many salespeople want to skip over that and it screws them. So you’ve got to start there.
“That first interaction should not be a sales interaction. And I get this all the time, somebody connects with you and their first message is, “Hey, do you want to buy from me?” You wouldn’t do that in the real world, don’t do it online.” – David Fisher · [23:45]
David Fisher:
Then I think it can be as simple as when somebody does engage with you online, whether it’s they reach out to connect with you. One of the biggest things I love doing is starting conversations with people who have posted on a shared connections post, right? Somebody posts an article who I’m connected with and somebody they’re connected with responds, I’ll respond to them and do a little research to see if that’s somebody that I want to engage with. And then it’s simple as reaching out and saying, Hey, saw that we both know so and so. Would love to stay connected with you. I actually work with this kind of product or service. If there’s anything I can do to help in the future, let me know. And I do strongly feel that first interaction should not be a sales interaction. I get this all the time. I’m sure you do too. Somebody connects with you and their first message is, Hey, do you want to buy from me? You wouldn’t do that in the real world. Don’t do it online.
Will Barron:
Well, I’ll tell you what I get all the time is, Hey, I’d love to come on the podcast. I don’t know. I don’t know this person.
David Fisher:
Of course they would.
Will Barron:
They’ve not. Yeah, obviously. And I don’t know. It seems like if you can’t suss out how to social sell, whatever you want to call it, give me just the tiniest sliver of tell me you like the show before you, stroke my ego, whatever it is before you kind of pitch me. And then the pitch is super weak of a LinkedIn message, random connection request, LinkedIn message. Hey, love to come on the podcast. Can you give me, can we get on the phone for 10 minutes to discuss it? And I’ve literally just not replied to any of these emails or messages on LinkedIn for that very reason that I don’t have 10 minutes to just randomly give to someone to come on the show.
Why Your First Interaction With Someone Should Not Be a Sales Interaction · [24:46]
Will Barron:
And it’s not that I think the show is fun, incredible, and game changing and all this kind of stuff. Hopefully here it’s having some kind of an impact, but I’m over inundated with people requesting to come on the show. There’s people like yourself who I’m happy to have on regularly, because that’s less processing for myself to do research on the back of someone. And I don’t know whether it’s people don’t know, ’cause podcasting isn’t ne. People need to have some kind of one page media kits of I’ve been on these shows. Hey, you can listen to them. This is some information about me. Here’s my bio. Here’s my background. And at the end, feel free to reach back out if we’re a good fit. I don’t think it’s rocket science and this relates to sales as well of if you pitch someone on that first conversation, you give the prospect, the same icky feeling of you make a little bit of effort. Is that too much to ask? Yeah.
David Fisher:
Yeah. You’re right on. I mean, I do get interviewed on a lot of podcasts and when I reach out to a new one, it’s always, I make sure I listen to one or two episodes and then I go, Hey, you talk about these sorts of topics for this kind of audience. Here’s what I think I could add to your show that would be relevant to your audience. Right? ‘Cause here’s how I can help you create a good show. My goal is if I’m pitching me on a podcast episode is here’s how I can help you. And it’s the exact same thing in sales. That engagement, again, might not happen like that. You might actually have to build a relationship. Maybe you send that first connection request, that first really, on a practical level, send out, have a cadence connection request.
David Fisher:
You connect, you send out a quick note. Thanks for connecting. I really appreciate it. Let me know how I can help you. This is the kind of stuff I do. Then, a week later find another one of their posts and like it, or just do a quick comment to it. And maybe then you start looking for a place where you can say, oh, I see you’re working on this. Just so you know, I do that kind of thing for our clients. If you ever want to talk, let me know. And you’re bringing people into your funnel that way, but you’re not just trying to hit them over the head with the sales. Here’s my sales brochure. Buy from me, the first time you talk to them. So I think that’s, those are some of my tips for how to use a platform like LinkedIn. Think of it like you would a large networking event in the real world. You wouldn’t walk in and just say, Hey, you know, my name’s David, you want to buy from me? You’d start a relationship with him. It’s the same thing.
Will Barron:
Yeah. I think perhaps being online removes some of that face to face away. So people who would be nervous of doing that in real life, because you could have some idiots that were going to do it anywhere anyway and will try hard.
David Fisher:
That’s true.
Will Barron:
So, and they will learn because they’ll get no responses. They’ll get no positive feedback from that. But perhaps it’s the people who would be conscious of that in real life, do it online and especially SDRs. I know a bunch of SDRs listen to the show. They’re spamming out emails. They’re spamming out LinkedIn messages from their personal accounts because that’s what the company they’re working for has asked them to do. But my response is, or my thoughts on that is you’re kind of burning bridges that might be useful later on in life. Especially if you are like a young lad or girl, it’s your first sales role and your first step in the towing the water of the ocean of sales and business. Spamming people with your actual real name, I think that’s got negative consequences all over. Okay. Next one. We’re not getting many, through many of these, David.
David Fisher:
We’ll do another one. We’ll do another one.
Complex Sales and Dealing With a lot of Decision Makers · [28:33]
Will Barron:
We’ll try and get another two questions in. Okay. So my sale is complex. We have lots of decision makers. How do I prioritise who I should be spending the most time networking with within an account?
David Fisher:
That’s a really good question. And I think that’s going to become more and more important as selling. A lot of the transactional work is going to go to computers. It’s going to go to algorithms, AI. So I think more and more of us in sales, we are going to be dealing with complex sales, longer sales cycles, more people involved. The research shows that there’s more and more people involved in the sales process than ever before. I think there’s a couple things to do. First on a very practical level, actually sit down and map out the decision making process of your clients, right? Or your perspective clients. So you have company X sit down. And this is where, going back to tools like LinkedIn, there’s a lot of different information gathering tools out there. Find out who are all the people that are around this decision, right?
David Fisher:
Maybe your direct contacts, but also there might be some champions. There might be some decision makers who aren’t directly engaged, but you know you’re going to have to get their okay. Do that first. So then you’re not just kind of pinging around at whoever responds to your email. Then be very deliberate and go, okay, do I have a relationship with this person? Yes or no? On a scale of one to 10, where is that relationship with them? When was the last time I had an interaction with them? Do a quick assessment on each of those people. And that actually lets you know where you should be putting some of your time and effort.
“One of the biggest things I learned from a mentor is don’t necessarily find the people that can say yes, find the people that can say no, and make sure that you’ve built a relationship with them.” – David Fisher · [30:40]
David Fisher:
It might be that there’s something you really enjoy spending time with, but you spend a bunch of time with them. They’re not the only person who can say yes or no. So you check the box and you move on to somebody else. One of the biggest things I learned from a mentor is don’t necessarily find the people that can say yes, find the people that can say no, right? And make sure that you’ve built a relationship with them and that you’ve taken care of that piece.
David Fisher:
But I think having almost a little bit of a graph for each prospective client in this complex environment can be really, really helpful. And it’ll actually show you then where you need to spend your time, because there’s not, one of the biggest challenges I think we face is that we want there to be just a simple yes or no or a simple chart. You know, if X then Y and then if Y then Z. So this is where I should spend all my time. This goes into the very human part of the sales process, which is using some of your own judgement . And you were talking about being younger. The great thing is with more and more experience, you start to know, oh, I should spend time with this person versus that person. But again, the biggest thing, graph it out, look at it, and then make sure you’re checking all the boxes. ‘Cause there’s probably one or two that you missed.
Will Barron:
I know there’s no answer to this, but I’m going to ask you anyway.
David Fisher:
Thanks. Thanks, Will.
How Many Touch Points Does It Take For a Buyer to Know You Exist? · [31:52]
Will Barron:
Pressure on. How long, how many touches, not to necessarily build a deep relationship because that’s super variable, but how long and how many touches does it take before someone knows that you are Will Barron, you work for Upgraded Media, you sell advertising on The Salesman Podcast? What’s the minimum amount of contact points or length of time that we need to put in front of someone? ‘Cause what I’m thinking is there’s going to be lots of people with the account. Perhaps they just need to know who we are. They need to put a face to a name. That’s all we need, really need with them. How much contact do we need to have with them to just achieve that?
David Fisher:
Super unanswerable question. Thank you. It could be as few as one, right? My guess is if you just have in email interaction or electronic interaction and by the way, this is completely a guess. So I could be totally wrong. I think probably two to three that they responded to. But here’s what I will say. If you can get a face to face conversation with them, it’ll take one, right? The moment you have a face to face conversation with somebody, you’ve just, you’ve planted a flag in their mind. One of the things that I do professionally, and it sounds like it was important for you as well is if there was ever anybody who was an important decision maker, I did everything I could to actually either talk to them on the phone, that was at a bare minimum.
David Fisher:
But I wanted to get in front of them, because if you are sharing physical space with them and video calling, I guess is now the next best thing. But if you are physically in front of somebody saying, hi, I’m Will Barron. And I sell advertising for the pod man sales, excuse me, The Salesman Podcast, they’re going to know. So that’s, I guess would be my guess. Right? So if it’s just electronic two to three, maybe a few more, if you’re not really getting all of their attention. But if you can have a physical conversation and even better an in person conversation, they will remember.
Will Barron:
Yeah, definitely. And something I get, which is anecdotal for this, I get it all the time. When I meet people randomly who watch or listen to the show and then especially at conferences and events and the different things, especially we did last year, The Salesman Podcast Live. Every single person I’ve pretty much ever met in person goes, oh, you’re taller than I expected. And that just goes to show ’cause I’m six foot three. So I’m pretty, pretty tall and lanky. But I just goes to show that video and voice isn’t the same. You can’t get that initial spark, that connection that you can with shaking someone’s hand, fist bumping them, high five them. However you walk into your sales meetings and greet the person in front of you. There is another layer to that, right? There is. And I guess this is how we’re wired.
Will Barron:
And five years ago, video calling was, well, 10 years ago, video calling was expensive and probably a bit weird and creepy and people weren’t used to it. A hundred years ago, I don’t know when the phone was invented. So a hundred, 150 years ago, before that it was a telegram and perhaps you trying to recognise people’s vocabulary. There’s been books, but we’re only talking a couple thousand years ago when we’re scribbling things on walls and caves. It’s before that, we’re wired for 500,000 years, 300,000 years, depending on how, kind of how you appreciate different archaeological discoveries that going on in the moment with humans and our history, but the roundabout that kind of period is the how we’re looking of, we know so many people, we can remember so many names because that’s how big a tribe could be.
Will Barron:
That’s why people gossip, because it’s easier to remember John who did X, Y, Z. So we call them one, two, three. It’s easier to do that than just to associate a name with a face. We gossip, because then you can talk about the people in the village and you associate things with them. And that’s why sexism, racism kind of is in built into kind of how we communicate and how we unfortunately put people into groups. We’re kind of battling all this on the internet, and computers and mobile phones might be the solution. Because you now going back to the first question, we don’t need to remember it all, right? We can have a look on my phone next time I go shooting, and.
Will Barron:
I can suss out, oh, Barry runs, one of the guys there runs a, [inaudible 00:36:18] Nigel, very nice guy. He runs a gating company. They make iron gates. So next time someone needs a gate, I’ll be referring him. And I was chatting to him about the marketing and I wrote down what we were chatting about. And next time I see him, he probably won’t remember anything about me. But as soon as I start talking about all that, right, he’s going to love it. He’s going to feel that love and that appreciation.
How to Use Your Personal Brand to Increase Your Inbound Leads · [36:39]
Will Barron:
So one final question, ’cause this is an interesting one that I wanted to get to. I’m always talking about building personal brand on the show. We’ve talked about it on the show as well. So this gentleman, he goes back and forth with me regularly, so I’m sure you can add some value to him here, says I’m well known in my small, and it is a very niche vertical. He’s well known as a B2B sales professional. How can I leverage this? I guess this star within this very specific audience, how can I leverage this to increase the amount of inbound sales leads that come my way?
David Fisher:
So that’s an interesting question because I think first of all, the fact that this person has a brand and a small niche there, that’s good. I talk about being a micro influencer. Too many people think, especially sales people think they have to be like you to be an influencer, right? And be heard by thousands and thousands and thousands of people. But really you just want to make sure your buyers and your potential buyers know who you are. And that might not be a very big market. I think that if you have a good niche, oh, I’m sorry, good brand within your niche, people know you, that’s when it is useful to look at possibly doing some content creation, meaning some videos, some articles, doing some podcast interviews within that niche. Right? I think a lot of times people, they’re big fish and small ponds and they go, well, I’m just going to then go leap to the next level and then realise that, oh boy, it’s hard to be in a big pond.
David Fisher:
I think if you can look at a few of the other content creators and other influencers in your niche, this is, I’m a big fan of collaboration. About working with people, this is just a personal philosophy that a rising tide raises all ships. So it’s not a zero sum game, work. So find the people, they might be competitors or other influencers and go, how do I help you be successful? If you think about what you and I are doing right now, we’re creating content together. So instead of you sitting in front of a video camera and me sitting in front of a video camera, making okay content, we get together, we make even better content. So that’s really where I would kind of point that individual towards like, where are you actually creating some content? You’ve got the recognition. You’ve got the awareness. Now actually putting it out there for people to respond to, because that’s where the inbound comes from. Right? When people do know you, that you’re adding value to them so that eventually they’re like, Hey, let’s call Bill, right? He obviously knows his stuff.
Will Barron:
Love it. I’d just add one extra layer to this and a shortcut perhaps to some of this of, so this chap could be easily Googled. So I’m trying to be cautious of how I’m describing it now. But his niche, probably there’s a thousand decision makers on the planet. Each one of those could probably do a million dollars worth of business with him. And he’s employed as in a big corporation. He’s not an entrepreneur. He’s not doing it himself.
Will Barron:
But you said that then David with content, it’s almost an opportunity for him to start interviewing these decision makers, be the centre of their little universe, and perhaps only 50 of them, a hundred of them listen to the show, which is achievable. You could do paid advertising to that many people on board at relatively cheaply. And then he is, again, this has covered a lot of ground here, but he’s top of mind. He is kind of pushing out content to people. Perhaps he says, oh, I did this interview with one of your competitors in this space. Hi, I’m blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that’s his introduction on LinkedIn, so he’s not amped to immediately pitch.
Parting Thoughts · [40:45]
Will Barron:
He could probably do most of the things we’ve talked about in this episode by spending a little bit of time on a weekend and doing, whether it’s interviews, whether it’s over content, collaborations, that probably ties a lot of this in together. So yeah, I appreciate that. And I’m sure he will as well. He’s an avid listener to the show. And with that, David, to wrap up, mate, because we have covered a lot of ground here and I think we got through five questions out the 10 I’ve got here. So that’s better than what I was expecting. With that, mate, tell us a little bit about Hyper-Connected Selling and tell us all about the speaking and the teaching and the training that you do as well.
David Fisher:
Yeah. So my latest book was called Hyper-Connected Selling, came out last year, and really it’s focusing on helping people become sales sherpas, and becoming guides for their prospects and customers, really all the stuff that we were talking about today. And I do also offer speaking, training workshops, the whole panoply of services that go along with that. I love being able to share my message with people and really help them understand how to integrate technology and the interpersonal communication skills to win more business. And then you can also find all of my writing. I do write a lot at my website, DavidJPFisher.com/salesmanpodcast because we have a landing page just for all of the listeners of this show.
Will Barron:
Good. Well, I’ll link to that in the show underneath this episode over at salesman.org. With that, David, I want to thank you for your time. None of these questions, Sales Nation, were put in front of David beforehand. So this is a top of his head. He crushed it. I loved it, mate. I loved this new format. So we’ll do more of these. We’ll get you on to rattle through some more of these questions in the not too distant future. And with that one, thank you for joining us on the show.
David Fisher:
Thank you so much. Always a pleasure.
