Richard Harris brings over 20 years of technology and SaaS experience in sales training, operations and sales leadership into his role as a Sales Consultant. He has built, led and consulted with a wide range of organisations including start-ups, mid-size companies, and global organisations.
On this episode of The Salesman Podcast, Richard explains the steps we need to take to ask painful (but powerful and business winning!) tough questions to our potential customers without it getting weird.
Featured on this episode:
Resources:
- TheHarrisConsultingGroup.com
- Richard on Linkedin
Transcript
Richard Harris:
Oftentimes those questions that the rep is thinking might be offensive, are very meaningful questions. And it means that they haven’t felt comfortable asking them. And they’re also not sure how to ask them, right? When someone asks for a discount and you want to say, “No.” Or you say, “We don’t do that, or we don’t do free trials, or we don’t do prepay, proof of concepts.” I think it comes around there.
Richard Harris:
The mindset comes from the other parts of the conversation where you’ve said things meaningfully, asked meaningful things, said the truth. That builds your mindset so that when the pricing conversation comes up, it happens.
Will Barron:
Hello, Sales Nation. I’m Will Barron, Host of The Salesman podcast. The world’s biggest B2B sales show where we help you not just take your sales [inaudible 00:00:45], but really thrive in sales. Make sure you click subscribe, join Sales Nation today. And with that, let’s meet today’s guest.
Richard Harris:
Hey everybody, it’s Richard Harris from the Harris Consulting Group and Sales Hacker.
Will Barron:
And this episode with Richard, you’re going to learn how to ask amazing sales questions that make closing, weird closing techniques, make them absolutely obsolete. How you can ask questions without offending people. Difficult questions, and a whole lot more. So with that said, let’s jump right in.
Earn the Right to Ask Questions: What it Means and Why It’s Important · [01:10]
Will Barron:
And so to get us started, you’ve said this on other podcasts, and I’ve heard you talk about it off the air as well, but I wanted to kind of stop on it for a second. What does it mean to earn the right to ask questions to customers or potential customers?
Richard Harris:
Yeah. Well, first I want to give a little bit of credit. I actually had a sales rep teach that to me about seven or eight years ago, that he was frustrated because he felt like he needed to earn the right to ask the questions. And it really got me thinking. And so I won’t take credit for creating that line, but I will absolutely take credit for using it, because I think it means so much to all of us. What it means, at least from my perspective, is that I’m seeing reps who are coming into sales conversations a little bit fearful. They’re afraid that they’re going to upset the apple cart, that they’re going to blow the deal out of the water, that they’re going to blow it. That they’re going to do the wrong thing, say the wrong thing, or ask something that might be offensive.
Richard Harris:
Oftentimes those questions that the rep is thinking might be offensive, are very meaningful questions. And it means that they haven’t felt comfortable asking them. And they’re also not sure how to ask them. So for me, it’s sort of taking a couple of steps back, of saying, well, before we start asking all the questions, because we know the kinds of questions we want to ask, let’s make sure that the prospect or the customer says, “Yeah, it’s okay for me as a sales rep to ask you questions.”
Richard Harris:
And the easiest way I’ve done that, I’ve created something called the Respect Contract. But the thing that I talk about in that very specifically, is being able to say something like, “Will look, I know we’re going to talk about sales training today. I certainly want to hear your perspective, and I’ll probably ask you a couple of questions. And likewise, Will, I want you to ask me questions too.” So now we just very casually established that we’re going to ask each other some questions, and nobody, nobody ever says, “Nope, you can’t ask me any questions.” Right? Nobody’s that offended. So that’s really where it came from, the Genesis and sort of the thought behind it. I hope… So.
The Types of Questions that Have the Potential to Offend Potential Buyers · [03:18]
Will Barron:
That makes total sense. What would be an example of a question where a salesperson might feel that there’s a potential to offend the person that they’re speaking with?
“We all want the answer to this question, which is, “Are you going to be the one who makes the decision.” But we’re afraid to ask it that way because we haven’t thought of a better way to ask that question. So there it’s two things. One, you’ve got to earn the right to ask that question. And two, you’ve got to find a way to ask it in a meaningful way that doesn’t put someone on the defensive.” – Richard Harris · [03:40]
Richard Harris:
Yeah. Yeah. And I think it comes up a lot around pricing, right? When someone asks for a discount and you want to say, “No.” Or you say, “We don’t do that, or we don’t do free trials or we don’t do prepay, proof of concepts.” I think it comes around there. I think it comes around authority, because we’re so wanting to ask… We want the answer to this question, which is, “Are you going to be the one who makes the decision.” But we’re afraid to ask it that way because we haven’t thought of a better way to ask the question. So there it’s two things. One, you’ve got to earn the right to ask that question. And two, you’ve got to find a way to ask it in a meaningful way that doesn’t sort of put someone on the defensive.
Why You Need to Be Confident in the Types of Questions You Ask · [04:00]
Will Barron:
Is this then a mindset, or is this strategy? And I’ll explain what I mean by that of, is this the mindset of, if we’re talking about pricing, we need to be confident in our pricing. Chris Smith came on the show a while ago and he said something that was… He described it really fascinating to me of, if you are selling something… If you’re selling a chocolate bar in a shop, and someone comes and asks you what the price is, you tell them what the price is. And you’re confident about it, because it’s a chocolate bar. Whereas soon as you get into a big SaaS deal, multiple months, there’s commissions on the back of it, your boss, your sales managers, hassling you and hammering you to get the deal closed. And there’s all kinds of pressures. We go, “The price is whatever you’ll pay for it. I’ll negotiate with you.” And we crack and we just fall to pieces, perhaps.
Will Barron:
So is this a mindset piece of, we need to be confident that the price that is set is equivalent, or better, is equivalent or less than the value that our service offers. So we shouldn’t be even contemplating negotiating. And we can talk about negotiating and trading value versus pricing in a second, perhaps. But is this a mindset of, we need to be confident, or is this a strategy that we need to learn of when someone asks this, we say this. When someone does this, we do that instead.
“It’s not the rep’s fault for bad pricing conversations. It is 100% not the rep’s fault. And I say this meaningfully to every CEO, VP of Sales, CRO, everybody in charge. It’s your fault for cutting deals. If you allow yourself to cut deals, then you are absolutely cutting the confidence of your sales reps, every step of the way. Because they will remember every deal you’ve ever cut to make the number each quarter and then when the deal goes south, you turn around and blame the rep.” – Richard Harris · [05:36]
Richard Harris:
It’s a little bit of both, right? And I think that the mindset comes from the other parts of the conversation where you’ve said things, meaningfully. Asked meaningful things. Said the truth. That builds your mindset so that when the pricing conversation comes up, it happens, right? And here’s the deal. It’s not the rep’s fault for bad pricing conversations. It is 100% not the rep’s fault. And I say this meaningfully to every CEO, every VP of Sales, every CRO, everybody in charge. It’s your fault for cutting deals. If you allow yourself to cut deals, then you are absolutely cutting at the confidence of your sales reps, every step of the way, because they will remember every deal you’ve ever cut to make the number each quarter, right? And then when the deal goes south, because they still didn’t get it at the same price, or because you lost on pricing, then you turn around and blame the rep.
Richard Harris:
It is 100%. Well, let’s give it 99.9%. I’ll say the rep sometimes can mess it up, but it’s truly the executive’s fault. In fact, I wrote about this. I said the best day ever to buy a SaaS product is the last day of the month of the last day of the quarter, because nobody’s price list is true. Every price list I know will actually be flexible. So just hold out until the 30th. And I’ve debated whether I was ever going to say that, because I was afraid I was going to upset my clients. And then I realised, well, it’s not my fault that they can’t hold pricing, right? I can teach them how not to do it, but if they decide to cave, it’s well beyond my control.
Is It Okay to Be Blunt and Risk Offending Buyers When Talking About Pricing? · [06:57]
Will Barron:
Okay. So we’ll stick on this for a second. Then we’ll move on to the rest of the conversation here about questions. But when pricing does come up, perhaps we are confident about the value that we offer as both the product or service. And as an individual facilitating this whole deal being put in place, how do we negotiate someone, perhaps a professional buyer, which is my experience selling here to the NHS, who, perhaps the deal’s pretty much there, everyone’s on board, and there’s this one last hill to get over. Which is some… I’ve reserved language then, and I’ll keep it in my mind what I was going to say. But some genius in an office who, it’s their job to knock the price down, to negotiate on things. But how do we deal with that without feeling weird, without feeling that we might offend someone else, or that we might be offended.
Richard Harris:
So there’s a couple things you’ve got to think about. One is…
Will Barron:
Also, sorry. Let me just interrupt here a second. Sorry for that. But is it okay to offend people as well? Should… Is it bad to be… I’m asking you 15 questions here, but this came to mind. Is it okay to be blunt and to potentially offend someone in the business space when we’re talking about pricing? Is that okay?
Richard Harris:
I don’t think you want to do it to offend them, right? That’s not the mindset, but I do think you have to protect your own, right? People come to me asking me for deals all the time, right? And I find ways to… I think Chris Voss says this best, right? Is, find ways to say no without saying no. It’s like, “Well, I would love to do that deal with you, but how am I supposed to run a business if I cut deals like that.” Right? I’ve got a very, very well known, large banking company that everybody in the world would know, that’s hammering me on pricing. And I’m just kind of… The piece that you’ve got to not be offended about, you’ve got to be willing to walk away. If you aren’t willing to walk away, that’s your biggest problem, right?
“If you aren’t willing to walk away, then you’re going to lose on pricing.” – Rochard Harris · [08:45]
Richard Harris:
And I think that’s kind of what I was alluding to back with some of these other deals is, if you aren’t willing to walk away, then you’re going to lose on pricing. You can walk away politely. You could. There’s nothing wrong with saying, “Hey, Will, I really, really would love to work with you. I think it’d be super fun. But unfortunately it feels like we’re at an impasse. And you know, if you can find a way on your side, I’d love to work with you.” And then I have to shut up, right? That’s the hardest part is stop talking, particularly for me. But you can walk away and not offend somebody and be respectful to them and respectful to yourself. But if you’re not willing to do that, then that’s going to be your biggest Achilles heel.
Asking Difficult Questions in Sales Conversations · [09:32]
Will Barron:
That is perfect. Because what I was alluding to here was, I think a lot of time, as you were describing, we’ll walk on eggshells for the risk of offending someone. When there’s two layers, I guess. One, we can’t control whether someone is offended by what we say or not. That’s up to them. That’s their mindset. Their upbringing. How seriously they take all of this. Whether it’s just a job to them. Whether they’ve got their ego wrapped up in their position, which might happen further up the food chain. I don’t know. So we can’t control whether they’re offended or not.
Will Barron:
And then two, I feel like if I was a CEO of a company, if I was a high flying executive, I’d be less worried about offending people and more bothered about getting the job done. About proving, whatever we promised for the shareholders, and to make it happen. And I feel like that might be a competitive advantage in a marketplace where you’ve got lots of soft sales reps around you who are unable to ask difficult questions. If you can ask difficult questions, you can accelerate the process, right? And set yourself up as an expert, because only an expert in that field would be capable of being confident enough to ask these kind of questions.
Richard Harris:
I think so. Yeah. I agree with you there. I will push back on one thing you said. We can offend people. We actually can. And believe me, I probably have offended more than I would care to admit. But on occasion, sometimes I have to do that just to defend myself, right? I know what my value is and I’m not going to let somebody cheapen my value. And then if someone takes offence to that, it’s kind of like, “Really? Wait, you just told me you devalued my service. I defended myself. And now you’re offended that I’m defending myself?” You know, it’s kind of like, “Eh, no, not going to work that way.” Right? That’s when I say, it just sounds like this isn’t the right partnership.
Will Barron:
Yep. Yeah. And that’s a mature way to end the conversation, I guess, and to move on. Because that’s just a no, right? It’s just a no. If you’ve offended someone, if you butt heads.
Richard Harris:
Yeah. I do want to come back to your question though. You’ve gone through all this and now there’s the CFO who’s looking at line X-27, right? And the purchasing department or the procurement department. And remember the procurement department has a leader board just like you do in sales, right? Here’s the deal. Here’s where it came in at. We’re going to try and shave this percentage off. And my bonus is X if I shave off that percent. So you’ve got to sort of work with your champion and ask some questions of your champion, like, “Who are these people? What happens if I say no, and you say yes.” Right? Being able to say to your champion, “Hey, look, if I say, no, we can’t give them this discount. And you’re still saying you want to purchase me because you don’t really care about the $2,500 that we’re talking about. And the CFOs says no, but you say yes. Where does that even leave us?” Right?
Richard Harris:
“How much juice do you actually have?” And that’s a great question to ask your champion, right? Is, and it could be not even with pricing, it could be just taking it to the boss to get the demo. Hey, let’s say you want to… You love the demo. You thought it was great. What happens if you love it, and your boss says they don’t like it? Where does that leave us? That’s really going to help you understand the internal politics of that organisation.
The Most Comprehensive Question You Could Ever Ask in Sales · [12:43]
Will Barron:
That makes total sense. Okay. I’m going to ask you a question now. It’s totally leaded. It’s totally loaded. Hopefully I know the answer to it because that’s the next 15 questions I’m going to ask you, Richard. Is there a perfect selling question? Is there a structure to a question that solves every problem that we could possibly come across within a sales conversation?
Richard Harris:
Well, what makes you ask that question, Will?
Will Barron:
Because if it’s true, it gives me the knowledge to just win every sale that’s ever possibly there. If it’s not true, we’ll dive into why it’s not true in the different types of questions.
Richard Harris:
Well, the question I just asked you is the one that works, as per case that I just gave you. It wasn’t the question you asked me that mattered. It was the reason behind your question. So for me, the best sales questions are very open-ended questions, right? For those of you who don’t know, open-ended questions, almost always start with who, what, where, why, when, how, right? Closed-ended questions are is, or, would, could, should, do, does, is, right? And so asking someone, “When you say that, Will, what makes you say that?” Whatever it is. Or, “Hey, Will, where’s that coming from?” Or, “Will I hear you. I hear what you said, but I felt like there was a little hesitation in your voice. Is there maybe something we should talk about a little bit more?”
“Asking where the conversation’s coming from before you figure out where it’s going is really important. Because so many times the conversation that the prospect is having with you, there’s a reason for that conversation or that question. Once we understand the reason, then it becomes a little bit more eye-opening.” Richard Harris · [14:01]
Richard Harris:
So asking where the conversation’s coming from is really important before you figure out where it’s going, because so many times the conversation that the prospect is having with you or that your customer’s having with you, if you’re in customer success, there’s a reason for the conversation they’re having. Or there’s a reason for the question. They’re not telling you the reason. Once we understand the reason, then it becomes a little bit more eye-opening. So is there one single question? I don’t think so, Will, but I think it’s a style or type of questioning that helps you get to the root of where the prospect or customer is coming from, that really, really helps.
How to Uncover the Real Reason Your Customer is Having a Conversation with You · [14:40]
Will Barron:
How does this fit in a real life scenario? And we can use Fred, the studio shark here, who is inadvertently one of the world’s leading B2B sales professionals on the planet. We can use Fred as an example in his conversations here in a second. But how does this work in the context of a real, maybe not a cold call, but maybe you’ve emailed them. You set up a phone call, a discovery call. How do we ask? What question do we start with when we’re trying to uncover the reason for their conversation?
Richard Harris:
Yeah, so for me, it’s… I teach this thing, again, in the beginning called the Respect Contract, about getting permission to ask the right questions. And you kind of need to transition from that Respect Contract into the actual sales conversation. So generally speaking, the transition statement that I encourage reps to use is, “Hey, Will, what’s making us talk about this today?” Right? Now, sometimes people, if it’s an inbound lead, and they said, “Well, I’ve got a sales team and I need to train them.” And you know, I know what they want, but I still want to know, “Hey, Will, what makes you want to talk about training your sales team now that it’s May, versus maybe January at the beginning of the year?” Right?
Richard Harris:
Trying to create a starting line of where the conversation existed in their head before they spoke to you, for me, really shows that you’re listening, and it really shows that you are being empathetic to their unique situation, which I think is really, really critical. And it lets them control the conversation, which is what they want. And by asking it in such a meaningful and thoughtful way, they’re going to answer that question truthfully. And then over time, they’re going to keep answering the next round of questions. So I’ll stop there, because I could go on. But is that contextually enough for what you’re looking for?
Will Barron:
Yeah. And I want to turn it into a real life example here with Fred, he sells IT solutions. So he’s gotten the call. He’s doing his… What you call it… remind me… Contract…
Richard Harris:
Yeah. Respect Contract.
A Practical Example of How to Become a Guide in Sales · [16:37]
Will Barron:
Sorry. Respect Contract. I wrote it down, Richard, but I can’t read my own handwriting. So he’s done his Respect Contract. He’s transitioned as you described. The IT person that he’s calling upon is giving him the reasons why, and perhaps they’ve come to this base problem that they want to solve by a specific date. So Fred here is getting super excited at this point. He knows that there’s a need, we go through the whole [inaudible 00:16:59] element. Yep. His ears are…
Richard Harris:
That’s happy ears, right?
Will Barron:
Yeah. I don’t know if sharks or, slash, fish have ears, but something’s happening. What’s next from that. And with this, I want to kind of touch on something you said there of the person you’re phoning feels in control of the conversation. Are they truly in control of the conversation, or are we using questions once we know their need, to guide them forward throughout a kind of a pathway that we’ve already aligned in our head?
Richard Harris:
It’s a little bit of both, right? It’s a little bit like, you know, I’ve got two boys who are, here in the States, it’s called the Cub Scouts. I don’t know what you have.
Will Barron:
Yeah. I was in Scouts all the way through, from Beaver, to Corps, to Adventure Scouts. I went to Thailand. We’ve been all throughout Europe. Scouts is amazing.
Richard Harris:
Okay. Cool. So it’s a little bit like being a leader of a den where you’re like, “Hey kids, we’re going to go on a hike today, and I’m going to let you lead the hike, but I’m here to make sure you don’t get off the rails.” Right? To make sure they don’t go too close to the cliff, or that they stay focused on what they need to accomplish, right? So for me, that’s how I sort of coach to this. And it could be, you know, I don’t care if it’s Girl Scouts or Cub Scouts, whatever it is. That’s the guide of a good sales rep, is you’re a little bit of a tour guide. Where you do a little bit of teaching, but you also want people to learn on their own, right? And I think the best way to say it is, it’s one thing for me to tell you what your problems are. It’s another if you tell me what the problems are, right? The oh, I think… I don’t know where this came from, but you know, if I say it, it’s sold and if you say it, it’s gold, right?
Will Barron:
That sounds like Jeffrey Gitomer to me.
“Prospects come in wanting all the control, and when someone actually takes control, they actually will let you take it because they want to make sure that they’re making the right decision.” – Richard Harris · [19:22]
Richard Harris:
Yeah. It needs to come from the prospect. So I do think the rep can lead you people down the path. And I think that’s the part where people trust sales people is, they say, “Well, here’s the good and the bad.” Right? Like we all know that we trust someone. You go to the restaurant and you ask the waiter or wait staff “What’s your favourite dish? Or what’s the house known for.” Right. And they tell you, and you say, “Well, do you like it?” And they’ll tell you if they like it. Because they say, “You know what? I don’t like spicy food. So I don’t really like that.” Well, I happen to like spicy food. So that negative from the wait staff is helpful to me, because I actually want something spicy tonight, right? So I think that it’s a little bit of a give and take.
“The biggest thing a sales rep needs to understand is that your job isn’t to sell all the time, your job is to help the decision maker realise that working with you presents the least amount of risk for them.” – Richard Harris · [19:40]
Richard Harris:
I think the reps have more control than they think they do. I also think that prospects come in wanting all the control, and when someone actually takes control, they actually will let you take it because they want to make sure that they’re making the right decision, right? The biggest thing that a sales rep needs to understand is that your job isn’t to sell all the time, your job is to help the decision maker realise that working with you presents the least amount of risk for them. And by teaching them, and letting the prospect reduce the level of risk they have in their decision making process, they give you more control.
Keys to leading Highly Effective Sales Conversations · [20:00]
Will Barron:
What would be some examples of, and there’s three things here, but we’ll go through them in order, so we don’t kind of over complicate things here. What would be an example of Fred here selling some kind of IT software? What would be an example of a question where he would be teaching, or I guess, is that a statement rather than a question? Then I want to dive into a question where we help someone learn, themselves. And then I want to dive into a question of how we can move the conversation forward and drag it from one point to the next.
Richard Harris:
Yeah, I think it’s one thing when the customer or the prospect comes in and says, “Well, I need to do this, this, and this.” Right. The best example is to say, “I can do that. I understand that. But just so I understand what are you trying to accomplish actually, by doing this, this, and this?” Right? People come to me saying, “I need sales training.” Okay, great. And I will say, “Hey, Will, I think I know the answer to this, but what is it we’re really trying to accomplish with this sales training?” So that’s one way to do it. Another way to do it is to say, and I teach this all the time. People probably, if they know me, they’ll have heard this a thousand times is, “Hey, Mr. or Mrs. IT Director, assuming you wanted to work with our company, what are the three things you’re trying to accomplish by implementing blank, and blank, and blank?”
Richard Harris:
After we implement these things from company XYZ, we expect blank, blank, and blank to improve. When we understand what they’re trying to improve, then we can lead them down that path. And as soon as you ask that question of a decision maker or a decision influencer, it actually makes them stop and think, “Oh yeah, what am I actually trying to do here?” Versus, “I was told to get sales training.” Well, it’s like, “No, we want to do more than just train the team.” We kind of know what the answers are, you know, better training, better negotiation skills, better whatever, better pipeline forecasting. But if I know that they want better pipeline forecasting versus sales training, that’s a big, big piece to understand. And soon as I acknowledge that with the head of sales, they’re super excited to know that I’m on their page.
How to Use Closed and Open-Ended Questions to Close Deals Faster · [22:10]
Will Barron:
That makes total sense. And the answer might be open and closed ended questions here, or there might be a more complex way to do it perhaps. But how do we then, when we, because that’s an aha moment, right? The customer goes, “Oh, that’s what I wanted to do with this.” How do we then go? Right. Okay. That’s sorted. Block that off for one second. Next step. Okay. That’s sorted, block one off. How do we do that with questions?
Richard Harris:
Yeah. So if I understand your question correctly, let me answer it. And then you tell me if I understood it right. So, open ended questions for me, are really discovering the issue. Making sure you’re on the same page and you’re figuring out what needs to be accomplished. Once you have agreement there, closed ended questions give you permission to move forward, right? Or to, as I say, book end that conversation. So if someone… If we’re done acknowledging the problem, just like, “Okay, well, it sounds like we should maybe go ahead and do a demo. Do you think that’s the right next step?” Because we’ve done enough discovery to then establish the next thing. That closed ended question, for me, sort of helps you align… Confirm that you’re on the same page with someone, and then help you move forward to the next step.
Will Barron:
Perfect. Perfect. And Richard, how did these conversations look in the real world when we… What we’re talking about here makes total sense for that first discovery call, right? What do these conversations look like after that? And then after that, and then when we’re coming towards the end of the sales process? Is it the same conversation, or do we need to start the conversation by referring back to everything else that we started with? Everything that was on the last call or the meeting? Is there a structure to a follow-up conversation that is giving us momentum and pushing things forward?
Richard Harris:
Yeah. So again, I hope I’m going to answer this the right way, but I always want to start every conversation with here are the goals of the call and here’s the agenda, right? And I might acknowledge, “Hey, last week we said we were going to accomplish this, this week. Are we still on that page?” And oftentimes you can send the goals and the agenda ahead of time in an email. And it’s so easy to do, right? How many people go to a meeting and it sucks. I mean, it’s just terrible, right? I don’t know the proper English word for that word. So if there’s a better word, let me know. Hopefully you don’t have to bleep me out. But you know, if you’ve ever gone to a meeting where you knew what the goals of the meeting were before, and the agenda, that meeting often flies by quickly. Or it allows someone to step in and go, “Hey, wait a minute, everybody we’re getting off the rails. This is not where we need to go. Let’s get focused back on where we are.”
“So much of sales is just about being organised and presenting in an organised fashion. So they will want to work with you, not just because of what you do, but how you do the business.” – Richard Harris · [25:14]
Richard Harris:
That one simple task of just sending the goals of the next conversation and the agenda, or even just the goals, even if you don’t have an agenda. Just sending something, so we all start, really helps confirm every step of the process all the way. And again, it allows you to earn the right to ask questions. As you become the organiser of your deals with your prospect and the more you can send to them… And I don’t mean blow up their inbox, but anything that’s organisational, to help them stay on track, is so helpful. Because they will want to work with you, not just because of what you do, but how you do the business. And I think that’s the key, right? So much of sales is just about being organised and presenting an organised fashion. So that again, you’re leading the person down the path to choose you.
Closing Questions and Statements That Actually Work · [25:32]
Will Barron:
Good. Okay. Final thing I want to wrap up with here is something that I feel like if you’ve ever watched me, you’ll see me face palming my head as I say it, but it’s a question that I get asked all the time by the audience. And maybe we’ve just never done enough content on it. Maybe this is a piece that I can link to this point in the video and just spam out 25 emails a day every time I get this question asked to me, but… And you give me your thoughts on this. I won’t taint the question too much, so we get kind of an organic answer here, but what questions can we ask, Richard, to close the deal?
Richard Harris:
Yep. So I think there’s a couple of things you can do. One is, stop worrying about closing the deal. Worry about understanding the process of closing the deal. Meaning if we… And a lot of it is sort of pre-qualification. So Will, before we do this demo, well let’s just assume I’m going to show you a demo that’s perfect. Because if I don’t, I’m never going to hear from you again. Where does that leave us after the first demo? What happens next? Right? Now I’m focusing on the process, not trying to close anybody.” Hey, Will, we’ve done the demo, as I said. What happens next from your side of things?” And they’ll go, “Oh, well, I need to go internally and talk to people.” And we all go, “Well, maybe I can be a part of that meeting.” I was like, “No.” Okay. Then I would say, “Great. If you have that meeting, and everybody’s on board, what happens after that?” Because that’s what you need to know to close the deal, right? Because they’re either going to come out of that meeting, yes, no, or maybe. And we want to try and assume a yes. And if they assume a yes, we know what to expect.
Richard Harris:
So that then when you’re calling back, you know, following up, or checking in, say, “Hey, are we ready to move forward to this next step?” Which is a third-party thing, it’s not a decision by either human, it’s a third-party thing. So it has much less emotional weight on our hearts and our heads. So for me, it’s about closing the process, not closing the deal.
Will Barron:
And how often does this happen? Is this every phone call that we have, or is this at the significant points, as in a discovery call, a demo, a wrap-up of once the decision makers have been in a room, whether we’ve been there or not, or is this every single time we speak to anyone, there’s a close and a next step.
Richard Harris:
I think it’s important to identify at the end of every call, here’s everybody’s to-dos, and here’s what our next steps are going to be. So people who’ve worked with me, they’re used to getting an email that says, “Here’s our next steps. Richard’s going to do this and provide this, and Sarah’s going to get this back to Richard, or Sarah’s going to go talk to her boss, Amy.” Whatever it is. Right? And there’s literally a set of next steps and to-dos. And that way, when I am scheduled to have that next call, I can say, “Were those things accomplished?” Are we ready to confirm that next call, assuming we got all these things accomplished.
How to Keep Your Buyers Accountable Without the Risk of Offending Them · [28:34]
Will Barron:
Right. And is that, sorry, but is that how you’d say that? Because that has a potential to offend someone. If you’ve said to potential customer, “You’ve agreed to do X, Y, Z.” How do we word the question of, “Have you done what you’ve promised?” Because you know, they’re busy, they’ve got other things. They’re not… We are not the… They’re not our whole world, kind of thing.
Richard Harris:
Yeah. Yeah. So for me, it’s more about saying, “Are we ready to move forward?” Right? And more importantly, “Are you ready to move forward?” Because it’s kind of in their boat, right? I’m always ready to move forward as a salesperson. Right? I’m always ready to take that next call. But it’s like,” Hey, are you ready to move forward? Is your team ready to move forward?” “How would you like to move forward at this point? Last time we spoke, Will, you said you were going to check with your team internally. I hope the conversation went well. How would you like to move forward from here?” Or, “Will, I hope that conversation went well, if it did, how does next Tuesday at 4:00 sound.” Go for what… Ask for what you want, and I think you can do it in a non-offensive way. Which goes back to sort of what we were talking about at the beginning of the show is like, you’ve earned the right to ask these questions.
Richard Harris:
If I’ve gone through all these steps, and I’ve delivered the three or four things that were on my to-do list, I’ve earned the right to ask you, “Can we move forward?” Rarely, do I think though, that you’re going to tell someone that they have a to-do that they didn’t acknowledge in the conversation, right? If you do, you can still say that in an email. It’s like, “Oh, I’m sorry. Here’s the three things that you said you were going to do. Here’s the four things I forgot to ask. Here’s one other thing we might need. Is that possible?” If it offends somebody, then they’re not the right person to work with, right?
Tell-Tale Signs of a Healthy Business Relationship · [30:30]
Will Barron:
And is that the crux of all this? That we should be… I don’t want to say pushing hard, but we should be assertive with our communications. We should be in a position if we’ve done our jobs, to be able to say, “Hey, sorry, I forgot about this. Could you get that done by Wednesday? It means we can move things forward.” Is that the sign of a healthy business relationship? When we can ask questions like that? And it seems like a ridiculous thing to ask you here. But I’ve been in scenarios where, especially with surgeons, when I used to sell medical devices. I’d be in my shitting my pants of asking them to do something for me. It would take me two weeks to ask them, then they’d go, “Yeah. Okay.” And then they wouldn’t even do it. Their PA or someone in the theatre would do it for them. And it was problem solved. So yeah, I guess is this a good sign that everything’s moving forward when we can ask a simple question like this?
Richard Harris:
Yeah. And this goes back to my Respect Contract, is that yeah, because, and we didn’t talk about this, but part of that Respect Contract within the first two minutes of us having a conversation, Will, you and I could never have met, but part of that Respect Contract would be like, “Hey, Will, look. I know you’re looking at sales training. I assume you’re going to look at some other people besides me.” I’m going to acknowledge there’s competition. Why wouldn’t I? “And you know, I want you to look at me and decide if I’m the right fit. And likewise, Will, I’m going to see if you’re the right fit for me. And if not, please tell me that I’m not the right sales trainer for you. And likewise, if I discover something that isn’t my specialty that you’re asking for, I’m going to tell you too.” Right?
Richard Harris:
And of course Will’s going to go. “Yeah, of course. No problem. I’ll gladly tell you that.” So by doing that, I’ve earned the right to ask any question I want, I’ve earned the right to walk away from the deal if I want. Just because I asked a direct question does not mean I’m being offensive. It doesn’t mean that I’m trying to push someone through the deal cycle. It’s like, “Look, I want to just figure out, are we going to do this or not do this? And if we’re not, let’s just acknowledge it and all move on with our lives.” Right? We got too much… As you said, you wasted two weeks of your life worrying about how to ask that question. That’s a lot of time that you could have been worrying about closing a different deal, right?
Will Barron:
For sure. It’s time, it’s energy. It’s all kinds of just wasted. And I said this inside and outside of sales. Someone on the show said it to me a long time, and maybe it’s a famous saying, but they said, “Worrying is like sitting on a rocking horse and expecting to go somewhere.” And that’s always stuck with me. I don’t know if this is a famous saying or this individual came up with it themselves, but that reminds me of what you described there, of whether we’re worrying what a customer’s going to say. It’s not life or death, whether we do business with someone, or we don’t do business with someone. It’s not life or death if we don’t get that deal that’s going to push us over target. No one’s coming shooting us. Perhaps, worst case scenario, we move to another company, but we’re still, we’re going to be just fine.
Parting Thoughts · [33:17]
Will Barron:
So yeah, I think that’s interesting. And perhaps conversation for another time of why salespeople are stressed, why salespeople are running around like headless chickens. Why salespeople, a lot of them have a desperation, or a smell desperation, around them. So conversation for another time. I’m sure. But Richard, with that, tell us where we can find out more about you, the sales training that you offer, and all that good stuff, mate.
Richard Harris:
Yeah. No, thank you very much, Will. As always, it’s been a pleasure. You can find me at theharrisconsultinggroup.com, richard@theharrisconsultinggroup.com. Of course, you could find me on LinkedIn, or on Twitter at RHarris415, R-H-A-R-R-I-S 415. You know, it’s the internet. If you can’t find me, if you’ve been listening to this and you want to find me, and you can’t find me, then I may not be able to help you. And I don’t mean to be offensive. And I don’t want to tell you that I don’t want to do business with you, but come on. It’s the 21st century.
Will Barron:
I’ll go on a limb here, and say if you can’t find Richard on LinkedIn, you shouldn’t be in selling. If you’re offended by that, you definitely shouldn’t be in selling. And with that, Richard, I want to thank you for your time, mate. For your insights, as always, and for coming on the show.
Richard Harris:
Thank you, man. I’s always a pleasure, Will. Thank you.
