Michele Molitor is an executive coach and an expert on impostor syndrome. In today’s episode of the Salesman Podcast, Michele explains what impostor syndrome is and how salespeople can break through it.
Featured on this episode:
Resources:
- MicheleMolitor.com
- Michele on LinkedIn
- Book: Feel the Fear . . . and Do It Anyway
Transcript
Will Barron:
This episode of the show is brought to you from the salesman.org HubSpot studio. Coming up on today’s episode of the Salesman podcast.
Michele:
70% of adults have dealt with this fear of being a fraud and imposter syndrome at some point in their careers. When you notice that fear, that anxiety starting to come up, just first, stop, take a deep breath, and notice and observe your feelings. There is so much that that happens for so many people, hence why coaching and therapy is such a popular thing.
Will Barron:
Hello, sales nation. My name is Will Barron and I’m the host of the salesman podcast, the world’s most downloaded B2B sales show. In today’s episode, we have Michele Molitor. You’ll find out more about Michele over at MicheleMolitor.com. On today’s episode, we’re getting into imposter syndrome. What it is, how to break through it, and a whole lot more of the tonne of value in this episode, if you have ever, ever tried to push your own comfort zone, your own boundaries and barriers, you’ll have experienced imposter syndrome. I’m sure many times over and in today’s episode, we’re going to explain how to break through it. Everything that we’re talking about in this episode is available in the show notes over at salessalesman.org. So with that said, let’s jump right into it. Michele, welcome to the Salesman podcast.
Michele:
Hey, great to be here with you. Thanks for having me.
Imposter Syndrome: What Does it Mean and How Can You Break Free of It? · [01:40]
Will Barron:
It’s great to have you on I’m glad get into this competition, which I think it’s going to seem nothing to do with sales, but we’re going to drag it back into the world of sales, careers, goals, and aspirations in a second. But we’re going to talk about imposter syndrome and hopefully with your coaching and your guidance, here Michele, how we can break free of it. But with that said, is there a definition of what imposter syndrome is? What is it if people perhaps have experienced it, but they’re not labelled it in the past?
“It’s basically this overwhelming fear, this feeling of being a fraud like, “Oh my gosh, they’re going to find out I don’t have all the answers. I don’t know what the heck I’m talking about. They made a mistake in giving me this raise or this promotion or hiring me.” It’s a level of anxiety that is keeping people, kind of hiding out and fearful that they’re going to make a wrong step and the whole thing’s going to fall apart.” – Michele Molitor · [01:50]
Michele:
Absolutely. It’s basically this overwhelming fear, this feeling of being a fraud like, “Oh my gosh, I’m going to find out I don’t have all the answers. I don’t know what the heck I’m talking about. They made a mistake and giving me this raise or this promotion or hiring me,” and right. It’s a level of anxiety that is keeping people, kind of hiding out and fearful that they’re going to make a wrong step and the whole thing’s going to fall apart.
Understanding The Prevalence and Predictors of Imposter Syndrome · [02:25]
Will Barron:
Is this typically acute in that, I’ve been asked to do this meeting and it turns out the past 20 years of my career. I’ve just been BSing, I have no idea what’s going on or is it less acute in that this can happen for weeks, years, decades until kind of either we collapse and break down or we change paths at the end of it.
“70% of adults have dealt with this fear of being a fraud and imposter syndrome at some point in their careers.” – Michele Molitor · [02:52]
Michele:
It’s a little bit of both. It’s something that both men and women suffer from, 70% of adults have dealt with this fear of being a fraud and imposter syndrome at some point in their careers. It can creep in slowly and it can blow up and take over if you’re not careful. In my former career, I was a creative director in web development and I got picked from a nationwide search and I was moved from Atlanta to San Francisco at the height of the dot com boom. I had a golden ticket. It would be so exciting. I was like, “They picked me.” I was shocked and amazed and delighted all at the same time that they had moved me and entrusted me with this position in this dot com company, it was just about to IPO. All along I was paddling like hell underneath the surface, trying to make sure that I was getting it all right.
Michele:
I looked like I had all the answers. So that in hindsight, I was like, “Oh yeah, I was suffering from a huge case of imposter syndrome.” Ultimately that fear along with two folks that I hired, I kind of got bullied out of my job. So it ended up being this giant hot mess, but it was ultimately a gift because it led me to my true life’s calling. So I share that with you because some people it’s something that comes in and then it leaves again. Other people, it comes and stays and it gets bigger and bigger and bigger until you’re like, “Oh, I got to deal with this. Am I going to deal with it now?”
Will Talks About His Imposter Syndrome And How He’s Dealing With It · [04:30]
Will Barron:
For sure. I’ll just go down that anecdote from my side here. This episode is timely for me because I’m feeling a little bit of imposter syndrome at the moment. So the audience may know this Michele, but I’ll lay it out for yourself as well. I started this podcast on the back of working a B2B sales role in medical device sales. I looked out in the marketplace, essentially Google, and there was no good sales training content. It was all weird wacky content from the eighties, nineties, and early two thousands that was so out of date. If I tried to do any of it with one of the surgeons that I was selling to, they would have just looked at me weirdly and told me to get lost. I would never have been allowed back in the operating room again.
Will Barron:
So I was like, right, I’m going to start a podcast. I’m pretty good at sales. I’m not an A class player, but I’m probably B, B plus, and I’m going to learn and I hopefully can share some insights either the podcast and interview and experts in different subject matters like yourself. And that was fine. Then the podcast grew and grew and grew. Now it’s, I guess we’d put it, it’s a large business podcasts, but it’s tiny compared to over podcasts out there in the non-business world. So it has a little bit of an audience. Now I’m feeling slightly imposter syndrome, right this second, because we’ve just started three big research projects, that are costing me the business, a crap tonne of capital mindsets, Mind share, and an energy, and I’m feeling an imposter syndrome because we are going to come out of the back of these, hopefully with some really interesting findings.
Will Barron:
The company is starting pivot slightly towards more of a research company and a training company versus the media company that it was. So I, as the head of the organisation is shifting from this lanky dude kind of slow in his words, on a podcast, into hopefully running an organisation can really have an impact with our own unique insights into the B2B buyer and seller marketplace. I feel like I’m kind of in between the both of them, right? I feel like if I started pitching you on, “Oh, we’ve done this research, Michele, and we’ve got this, this, this, and this.” The audience or yourself, maybe not self, because we don’t know each other too well, but the audience might be, “Hey, you were just joking on the podcast a week ago about something so stupid and daft, how are we meant to take you seriously?”
Will Barron:
So I feel like I’m in this area of imposter syndrome here and why I wanted to highlight that anecdote in particular was it seems like your anecdote of imposter syndrome was, “They picked me, oh, crap, I’ve got to do this.” Whereas mine is a hundred percent self-imposed, whereas my subconscious, whatever it is, it’s pushing me this direction. My conscious brain is tumbling behind it going, “Hey, I’m not sure if I’m capable of doing some of this.” Does that make any sense? What I just threw right at you then, Michele.
Michele:
Oh, it makes total sense. I’m laughing after here because similarly different Dave, last year in my COVID holiday, I decided to create, because I do coaching and consulting, right? So there’s a whole another arm to my business that is consulting. I decided to create a whole employee wellbeing programme for corporations. So I have a wee bit of that same thing happened like, “Okay, I can sell this one-on-one but selling to corporations, that’s a different mindset.” So there’s a part of me that’s being all wobbly about it. Right. So I’ve taught myself dive into the deep end of the pool and figure it out. Right. So for me writing about my own fears of imposter syndrome, that happened to me 20 years ago, but still creep in from time to time is the best way that I know to get over myself, keep doing what I know that I’m here to do. Then I know that I can do. I know that you know.
How to B2B Salespeople Can Counter Imposter Syndrome When Handling Big Sales Deals · [08:33]
Will Barron:
Yeah. So I do with some of the things, I guess I’m doing it literally right now, I’m sharing it on the podcast. Maybe there’s a bit of therapy that goes on inadvertently through me talking to people and on the show. So you can tell the author at the end of it’s, whether you want to charge me for coaching and consoling and consulting at the back of it. But with that, Michele, I guess, for the audience to make it really relevant for B2B sales. When I worked in that B2B sales role, I found this imposter syndrome. Whenever I would do a deal size, that would be bigger than what my usual deal would be. I don’t know who come up with this, but I’ve got this a kind of metaphor in my head of sales people tend to have this wealth, we call it a wealth thermostat.
Will Barron:
So if you’re used to doing deal size between 10 and 50 grand, great, you get in, it’s all unconsciously competent. You can make the calls, you can do the emails, you’re used to speaking to perhaps not the executives suite, but the people below them at high the middle management, you used to speak to the end users and everything’s fine. Great. But then every now and again, that big opportunity comes and the CFO is sitting there and you’re like, I don’t know how to speak to a CFO. You start to become less of a person and more of this just beast, any moment could for a load of godly, gooky away.
Michele:
It’s large, so entitled. It’s the CFO. No, it’s just a human being, puts his pants on one leg at a time. Right?
Will Barron:
How do we tell ourselves that whether it’s in the moment or before meeting, how do we convince ourselves that it is just a person? They’re probably just as nervous to talk to you because they don’t know that you know more about your product or service than what they do. We’ve talked about what a imposter syndrome is, how do we now pivot to, how do we get over it? How do we dive in the deep end as you suggested earlier?
“When you notice that fear, that anxiety is starting to come up just first stop, take a deep breath and notice and observe your feelings. Where is that stress or anxiety in your body? Your body has a wealth of information for you.” Michelle Molitor · [10:01]
Michele:
Sure. Well, the first thing is to, when you notice that fear, that anxiety is starting to come up just first stop, take a deep breath, right and notice and observe your feelings. Where is that stress or anxiety in your body, right? Your body has a wealth of information for you, right? So then you get to be your own little coach, right? And like, okay, I’m having a conversation with another human being. We’re talking about something that I know and love, right and that they’re interested in because if they weren’t, they wouldn’t have called me or they wouldn’t have invited me to meet with them. Right. I’m just going to listen and listen to their challenges and their problems. We’re going to problem solve and see if the solutions that I have are going to meet them where they are with their problem. Right.
“Now, if this anxiety happens frequently, one of my favourite things that I recommend to my clients is to create a journal. Call it your wins journal. So every time you have a win, small, medium, or large, write it down. Like, “Woohoo, celebrate! Today I talked with John DOE at Google and he’s always super excited about bringing our stuff into his company.” Write that down. So when you do get caught in these anxious moments, go back to your wins journal, like, “Oh yeah, that happened. That was real. Reminding yourself that you are good at what you do. You are enough, you’ve got this.” – Michelle Molitor · [11:44]
Michele:
It’s just that simple. But when we get caught in the space of, I’m going to talk to the CFO of blah, blah, blah company, and, oh my gosh, there’s all this stuff. But it’s all based on assumptions and things. I mean, there’s of course, facts behind the company does X millions of dollars in business and they have these many employees and yada, yada, yada. However, you’re still simply just talking one person to another person. When you can bring it back in to that narrow scope versus all this other noise, head noise, right, that your fears are making. “Well, what if? I don’t know.” Right. You’re just like, let me just breathe and regroup and recruit. Now, if this anxiety happens frequently, one of my favourite things that I recommend to my clients is create a journal. Where’s it? Where’s oh, I don’t have it handy, but anyway, you can get a little paper journal, right.
Michele:
Call it your wins journal. So every time you have a win small, medium or large, write it down, right. Like, “Woohoo, celebrate today. I talked with John DOE at Google and he’s always super excited about bringing our stuff into his company.” Right. Write that down. So when you do get caught in these anxious moments, go back to your wins journal, like, “Oh yeah, that happened. That was real. Oh, and that happened. And that was real,” right. Reminding yourself that you are good at what you do. You are enough, you’ve got this. Now you’re just perhaps stretching outside the edge of your comfort zone, which is creating that, that wobble, that uncomfortableness, that, for me, it happens as tingling and the top of my head when I stretched past the edge of my comfort zone.
“That fear, that angst, it’s just energy and its looking for a place to go. So get up, create a pattern to interrupt yourself. So dance it out. Put on some fun music, go for a walk outside, talk to the trees, say hello to the birds, whatever works for you. But it’s just about shifting and bringing yourself back into the present moment.” – Michele Molitor · [12:56]
Michele:
So just notice it. The thing is, it’s just energy that fear, that angst it’s just energy and is looking for a place to go. So get up, create a pattern interrupt for yourself. So dance it out, right? Put on some fun music, go for a walk outside, talk to the trees, say hello to the birds, whatever works for you. Right. But it’s just about shifting and bringing yourself back into the present moment. So you’re not letting your fears run away with you.
How to Get Over Past Mistakes and Stop Making Assumptions of The Future · [13:27]
Will Barron:
How much, because this goes way beyond imposter syndrome here. How much does this time that we spend either looking into the past that we can’t change or making assumptions, and then looking into the future on the basis of assumptions that we don’t know to be true? How much of it, regardless of imposter syndrome here, how much of that process holds people back from actually getting over what’s happened in the past and taking the correct actions to move forward and to have more success in their lives? Kind of moving forward things.
“There is so much that happens for so many people, hence why coaching and therapy is such a popular thing. Because it’s very easy to get caught in either one of those places and why mindfulness meditation, for example, is something that has become more and more mainstream, because it’s all about bringing yourself back into the now moment and not making those assumptions about the future or reliving the fears of the past.” – Michele Molitor · [14:01]
Michele:
Lord have mercy, Will. There is so much that that happens for so many people, hence why coaching and therapy is such a popular thing, right? Because it’s very easy to get caught in either one of those places and why mindfulness meditation, for example, is something that has become more and more mainstream, because it’s all about bringing yourself back into the now moment and not making those assumptions about the future or reliving the fears of the past. Because those old tapes is what keeps us stuck. Right. At the heart of my work is really helping people tap into those old beliefs that they hold about themselves, that are locked in their subconscious mind, they don’t even know that they have, oftentimes because they were implanted in childhood. Right. So when you can start to recognise those fears, when they’re coming up and get curious with it, like, “Huh, I wonder what that’s really about, or where is that coming from? Is that my fear? Or is that something that maybe my parents handed to me or my siblings or a teacher or one of my friends,” right.
“As a kid, we take on beliefs because we’re just big sponges. We just take in information and the environment that you grow up in, good, bad, or ugly lays the foundation for how you will perceive the world and the blinders that you carry for yourself.” – Michele Molitor · [15:10]
Michele:
As a kid, we take on beliefs. Because we’re just big sponges, right? We just take in information and the environment that you grow up in good, bad, or ugly lays the foundation for how you will perceive the world and the blinders that you carry for yourself. Right. That you don’t even know that you have. Right. So if you were told inadvertently or in a direct way as a kid, “Oh, you’re not good enough. Who are you? What were you thinking?” Right. You’ll start to take on those beliefs and that can shrink your perspective smaller and smaller as you go through your adult life, thus creating that back and forth, that happens of moving trying to be in the future or living in the past versus just staying present.
Will Barron:
For sure. W can go as deep as you like here, Michele. Because I love this, right? I love these conversations. There’s two things here. One, there’s a tonne of data that shows that most people, when we talk about the wealth firms start late earlier in the conversation about business. Most people earn between plus or minus 20% of what their parents earned. So you get accustomed to a certain lifestyle they’re accustomed to, “We can’t afford that. We can’t afford that at Christmas. We must have this. We, an’t do that.” So we’re you right in the fact that we’re being wired. So the wiring goes so deep and ingrained into us, that sometimes it can be difficult to change. So we’ll touch on how it’s perhaps change from this in a second, or at least become aware of it maybe.
Will Barron:
Then the other thing which I find fascinating is when you look at the data on eyewitness testimony of crimes, when hit goes to court. We’re terrible at remembering things. So we think we’ve got these memories of people saying this, doing that and they’re probably not accurate at all in the first place. So we’re holding ourselves back on these, what we think are real memories that we’ve replayed and twisted and turned over the years or decades. That’s now shaping our future. If we can twist them and shape them through positive, clearly we’re going to increase our chances of success. But most people I myself, in the past, right, I’ve had these thoughts and feelings of not being able to do this or not be able to do that. As we discussed at the top of the show, I don’t feel like I’m perhaps worthy of talking about research that we’re conducting and whose my company to say, we know this and this and this about the marketplace.
How to Identify and Overcome Self-limiting Beliefs From Our Childhoods and Rewire Our Brains · [17:35]
Will Barron:
When I’m happy to have guests on the show to tell me perhaps the same facts, so that there’s, there’s all kinds of things to go here. So Michele, how do we get over this? Right? If we have, I guess, how do we identify when it’s wiring that we need to rewire and how do we then perhaps change some of this wiring in the short time period that we have?
“The first thing is to notice, is there a disempowering thought that keeps popping up replaying in your mind that’s holding you back? “I’m not good enough. Success isn’t available to me, I’m different. Who am I? They’re not going to listen to me. I don’t deserve to be here.” Any of those ramblings of your amygdala, which is your fight or flight mechanism, that’s just literally trying to keep you safe and alive and on the planet.” – Michele Molitor · [17:57]
Michele:
Yes, absolutely. Well, the first thing is to notice, is there a disempowering thought that keeps popping up replaying in your mind, that’s holding you back, right? “I’m not good enough. Success isn’t available to me, I’m different. Who am I? They’re not going to listen to me. I don’t deserve to be here.” Any of those ramblings of your amygdala, which is your fight or flight mechanism, that’s just literally trying to keep you safe and alive and on the planet. Right? I like to call her Amy. Amy is a little lizard lady and your limbic brain, right. Amy just wants to keep you safe. Right? She’s the one chittering in your ear. “I’m not good enough. I’m not perfect. Other people are better than me. Blah-blah-blah.” So notice that and then say, “Thank you for sharing Amy. I’ve got this.” Right. Now the tricky part is because these beliefs are often hardwired at a subconscious level.
“Now the tricky part is because these beliefs are often hardwired at a subconscious level, it’s very, very challenging to get at them consciously, right? Talk therapy, coaching. They all have their place, but they’re still dealing with things at a conscious mind level.” – Michelle Molitor · [18:43]
Michele:
It’s very, very challenging to get at them consciously, right? Talk therapy, coaching. They all have their place, but they’re still dealing with things at a conscious mind level. So the work that I do is called rapid transformational therapy. It’s a unique combination that brings together cognitive behavioural therapy, talk therapy, neuro linguistic programming, and hypnosis, combined with coaching to create this holistic supportive process over 30 to 90 days. Right? So in the heart of the work, I’m able to literally talk to your subconscious mind, to help you identify what are the root causes, the root events that had you start believing that you weren’t enough, that you didn’t belong, that you weren’t lovable, that you couldn’t be successful. Whatever that tape is, that’s playing in your head. We literally can rewrite it because what I do is I help them neutralise the old belief, the disempowering belief, and then we plug in a new belief.
Michele:
Well, how would you like it to be? How would you like to feel, how would you have liked that scene to have looked? We’re literally rewriting over those memories because your brain doesn’t know the difference between what’s real and imagined in a state of hypnosis, right? So we use that to our benefit. Then I take all of those data points that I’ve learned in our discovery session. I weave that into what I call my transformation recording. It’s essentially a guided, hypnosis recording. I mix him by narrowing on music and they listen to that recording every day as they drift off to sleep for 30 days, because your mind likes repetition, right?
“We’re literally building new neural pathways around these new beliefs, these new habits, which then allows you to move forward powerfully, taking off the blinders of fear and doubt, and create new habits for success, that creates massive shifts for people in a very short period of time.” – Michele Molitor · [20:48]
Michele:
So the more you listen to it as you’re drifting off your brain’s always listening and taking in the information, just like listening to a song on the radio, you know the words 30 years, right? So it’s the same thing. We’re literally building new neural pathways around these new beliefs, these new habits, which then allows you to move forward powerfully, taking off the blinders of fear and doubt, and create new habits for success, that creates massive shifts for people in a very short period of time.
Michele Reveals Whether These New Positive Beliefs Have to Be True and Real When Convincing Yourself That You’re Good Enough · [21:20]
Will Barron:
If we’ve established that people’s negative beliefs in the past, don’t need to be real to have an effect on the person in the present and in the future. Do the beliefs that perhaps some like myself hip with hypnotism NLP, different modalities of therapy, right? Does it matter whether the beliefs that you would instil in someone, there’s an ethical thing here that we can perhaps touch on a second, but do they need to be real? In that what I’m saying is can you, if we went at this long enough, can you convince me that I am an incredible podcaster, I’m charismatic, I’m this and that, which then perhaps would lead to that happening in reality, even though it’s not true right now.
“I can tell that you’re a great podcasting host, but you might not believe me because of your imposter syndrome going on. So I would say it’s more about eliminating the barriers or taking off the blinders that has you think that you’re, “I’m okay, but I’m not an A grade.” I’m guessing you’re a lot better than what you give yourself credit for, which is at the heart of imposter syndrome.” – Michele Molitor · [21:58]
Michele:
Well, reality is subjective. Right? I can tell that you’re a great podcasting host, right. But you might not believe me because of your imposter syndrome going on. Right. So I would say it’s more about eliminating the barriers or taking off the blinders that has you think that your, “I’m okay, but I’m not an A grade,” like what you said earlier. I’m guessing you’re a lot better than what you give yourself credit for, which is at the heart of imposter syndrome. Right? “Well, I did okay.” Folks with imposter syndrome, they chalk it up to luck, being in the right place at the right time. “Oh, I knew so-and-so who got me into this and I just kind of lucked out,” right? No, you created this based on your brilliance, your talent, your expertise. Right. So everybody should stop and take a moment and sit back and go, “Huh, look what I made.”
“Give yourself a pat on the back. It’s not from a place of ego, but just from a place of noticing what’s so then amplifying that through the work that you do. So taking you from good to great is a matter of shifting your perspectives about yourself, and then continuing to believe in that.” – Michele Molitor · [22:53]
Michele:
Like give yourself a pat on the back. It’s not from a place of ego, but just from a place of noticing what’s so. Right. Then amplifying that through the work that I do. Right. So taking you from good to great is a matter of shifting your perspectives about yourself. Right. Then continuing to believe in that. Right. When I discovered this work, I didn’t even know that I had a deeply held belief that I wasn’t enough. I was so fearful of not being good enough, being judged and being kicked to the curb. Right.
“When I discovered that belief, I literally would just start repeating to myself. I am enough. I am enough. I am enough. I would drive down the road to my appointments and I would sing this weird little, not good tune. Like it’s my I am enough song. Because the more you say it, the more you’re strengthening those neural pathways until one day, I was like, “Well, yeah I am. Yeah, I am.” It finally sank in enough for me to get it, where it was true all along.” – Michelle Molitor · [24:25]
Michele:
When I discovered that belief, I literally would just start repeating to myself. I am enough. I am enough. I am enough. I would drive down the road to my appointments and I would sing this weird little, not good tune. Like it’s my I am enough song. Right. Because the more you say it, the more you’re strengthening those neural pathways until one day, I was like, “Well, yeah I am. Yeah, I am.” It finally sank in enough for me to get it, where it was true all along. But I didn’t believe that was true. Does that make sense?
Why it Makes More Sense to Be Realistic About Your Beliefs · [24:12]
Will Barron:
Oh, it makes total sense. I guess where we’re going from here is how do we know what the limits are with this? What I mean by that is we talked about stretching our boundaries, our comfort zone. Clearly we want to do that regularly because then what is challenging right now is going to be easy in the next six months, 12 months, whatever it is, however it longs to, it takes to stretch that comfort zone and kind of cement the next board that we want to kind of break through. But clearly if I had a similarly out of tune song like yourself, Michele, that said, “I’m black, I’m seven foot three, and I’m going to play in the NBA.” That’s probably not the most productive song to like have, right.
Will Barron:
Because it’s not going to lead to anything. It’s physically impossible with the medical technology that we have now that could even even happen in our lifetime. Right. So how do we know when we should be, I guess, almost faking it to make it to a certain extent. How do we know when we are just kind of wasting energy on something that is never going to happen?
Michele:
Well, you have to be realistic. I’m not going to morph into a six foot seven black man. That’s just beyond physical reality as we understand it. So you got to take these things with a grain of salt and that’s where outside counsel, which is mentors, friends, family, come in and go, “Dave, you’re a great guy, but you’re never going to morph into a six foot seven black man. I’m really sorry to tell you that.” Right. You’re like, “oh, okay, dang.” So you got to have those voices of reality around you and, and lean into mentors, coaches, friends, and family who were going to, “Hey, you got this, you got this green stuff in your teeth,” right. You got to be alerted to what works and what doesn’t work sometimes and to help you also remove those blinders.
Having Mentors or People in Authority to Help You Manage Your Beliefs and Your Reality · [26:11]
Will Barron:
Sure. I guess what you’re describing that as well, very literally can be applicable if we have an imposter syndrome about this big deal that we’re doing, we need to speak to someone in the organisation, perhaps their own CFO, who used to work in sales or CEO, whoever is, we need to ask them these questions. So they can paint a picture and share the reality that they went through, where, “Hey, it probably isn’t such a big deal as what you’re making out right now.” Is that fair to say?
“We can’t understand the experience of others that is so far outside of our own experience. So talking to people who have different experiences is going to give us different perspectives. So that you can go from, I don’t know, what I don’t know. To I know, what I don’t know, so that I can get to, I know what I know.” – Michele Molitor · [27:04]
Michele:
Yeah, that’s a great, great point. Find someone who is by whatever measurable standards are in the position that is stretching you, who’s maybe smarter, more successful, has more experience, whatever, and ask them questions. How would you approach this? What advice can you give me? What landmines should I avoid? Right. Because we can’t understand the experience of others that is so far outside of our own experience. Right? So talking to people who have different experiences is going to give us different perspectives, so that you can go from, I don’t know, what I don’t know. To I know, what I don’t know, so that I can get to, I know what I know. Right?
Be Brave Enough to Ask to Help · [27:59]
Will Barron:
So down to today’s question is, hire Michele and go to your website and booking a call, right. But other than that, which we’ll come onto in a second, we’ve covered fundamentals. We’ve covered understanding in the moment, if you’re feeling that imposter syndrome, where to take that energy somewhere else. Whether you go for a run around the block, whatever it is, get it out of a kind of fight or flight and into something more productive. We’ve touched on kind of like some of the therapeutic side of things or it’s NLP, hypnosis, cottage behavioural therapy. Is there anything else that we should be doing or is there any other models of therapy or whatever it is to accelerate some of this process? Is there anything else that we can do if we’re feeling imposter syndrome and we’ve ticked all those boxes? Is there anything else that we’ve missed that we should add into the conversation?
“So really by taking that next step of asking for help, you can get that outside perspective to help you see the thing that you can’t see that’s stuck on the end your nose is the first step in creating a quantum leap in your life and in your success.” – Michele Molitor · [28:41]
Michele:
It’s about being brave enough to take the step forward, to ask for help, right? Whether it’s from me or other people, being able to ask for help is a huge step. From a professional. I’m not going to ask anybody for any help getting over myself kind of person. Right. It took me a long time to do that. So really by taking that next step of asking for help, so you can get that outside perspective to help you see the thing that you can’t see that stuck on the end your nose is the first step in creating a quantum leap in your life and in your success.
Michele:
Because we’re all in this together. We can’t do it by ourselves literally. Right? So that’s an important thing to remember. If your ego gets all up in arms about that, say thank you for sharing. It’s okay. We can humble ourselves and get the help that we need, to then be a better person by expanding our emotional intelligence and letting go some of the fears and the worries and the anxiety, that’s been holding you back for way too long.
Will Barron:
Have you read the book or come across the book, Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway.
Michele:
Yes.
Why Breaking Through the Fear and Making Brave Decisions Comes Naturally to Some People · [38:10]
Will Barron:
So that book describes some of what you’re, in my experience when read, I read it 10 years ago now, but that did a lot of what you’re describing there. It allowed me and told me, it essentially told me it was almost like a coaching session. I think that is the office, Susan Jeffers. I might get that wrong. I’ll look at the show notes for this episode. It was almost like a coaching session via paper saying, “Hey, it’s okay to ask for help. It’s okay to feel fearful.” I think you used the word brave. It’s okay to feel like you need to be brave in a moment and then break through it. It’s my experience. I want to get your thoughts on this, Michele, and we’ll wrap up with this.
Will Barron:
It’s my experience that a lot of the time, the moments I have to feel brave, the moments I feel fear and have to break through it. It’s almost like a snap decision, as opposed to might be a long process of getting to that moment. But it’s not something that, when you’ve made that decision, it’s not something that tends to last for minutes, hours, weeks, or days. Is that something that you experienced as well, whether yourself and your clients and a lot of these breakthroughs and a lot of these decisions happen in that click, in that snap?
Michele:
Oftentimes yes. It’s the moment where they make the choice to move through it, but then there’s also Amy who comes back around, like, “Are you sure you want to do that? I don’t know about that. You should think. You should, you should second guess yourself.” Right? So that’s where the backpedalling comes in. But true story here years ago, I was working on a big project, right. I was sitting there at my desk and the top of my head starts tingling. I’m like squirming in my seat. I had this giant urge to get up and go get a snack. Right. I caught myself and I was like, Ooh, wait, that’s just the edge of my comfort zone.” So now I recognise when the top of my head tingles instead of going and get a snack, I’m like, “Ph, things get uncomfortable. Keep going.” Right.
Michele:
Because that’s just the way to move through and to stretch and grow to a new place. That’s what I want. I think that’s what you want. I think that’s what most people want is they want to be able to stretch and grow. It’s just that edge of your comfort zone gets really squirmy. You’re like, “Oh, look at that energy.” Be curious with yourself, Notice that energy, all squirming around in my body. Okay. Let me go do something with that. Then I can get back and focus on the task at hand.
Will Barron:
It’s interesting because I wouldn’t say I get that energy as you described, but what I get is this massive urge to procrastinate, to just go, “Okay. Maybe we’ll do that. I think I want to do that. We’ll do it in seven years from now, as opposed to just sending the email, making the call, do whatever it is.” The way I get over that nine times out of 10. I said just maybe my Amy, what’s the male equivalent of Amy. I’ve got Army whoever in the back of my brain is probably causing the procrastination.
Michele:
Arnold. We’ll call him Arnold.
Will Barron:
I’ve got big Arnold in the background and causing me all these pains and frustrations Michele. What I do is I ask the question, I guess, to that voice, I just ask the question, “What a champion do?” This is something that someone told me. It was one of the first episodes of the podcast.
Will Barron:
He’s won tonnes and tonnes of triathlons and ultra-marathons and things, this chap. He said, he asked the question, “What would the champion do?” So I copied that and I say that all the time, and that will get another hour’s work out of me. It’ll get me to send that email. It’ll get me to make that call, or because I go, well, maybe I’m going backwards about this. You’d coach me otherwise, but maybe I think well, I’m not aware whether it is that I’m procrastinating right now, but a champion would do it. I aspire to be a champion for whatever that means. So I’m going to make those changes and make those moves.
Michele:
I love that. I’m going to borrow that from you.
Will Barron:
It’s okay. I stole it from someone else. Well, the audience could steal it as well.
Michele:
It’s all recycled anyway.
Parting Thoughts – Michele’s Website and Her Masterclass on Conquering Fear and Anxiety · [32:25]
Will Barron:
Well, with that Michele, tell us where we can find more about you and more about the services and the training that you offer as well.
Michele:
Sure. I invite you all to come visit me at michelemolitor.com, M-I-C-H-E-L-E-M-O-L-I-T-O-R.com. Happy to have a complimentary discovery call with folks and find out more about what’s challenging them and how I can be of service. I’ve got a bunch of free stuff there. You can go to the brain candy section on my website and I’ve got a masterclass on conquering fear and anxiety. I’ve got a whole bunch of stuff up there for you. So check it out. Yeah, I would love to be of service if I can.
Will Barron:
Great stuff. Well, I’ll link to that in the show notes this episode over at salesman.org. With that Michele, had a blast. I appreciate you. I appreciate your time. I want to thank you again for joining us on the Salesman podcast.
Michele:
Well, thank you so much. It was delight to be here with you, Will. I appreciate it.
