Mark Hunter is a sales training expert and the best-selling author of “A Mind for Sales: Daily Habits and Practical Strategies for Sales Success.”
In today’s episode of The Salesman Podcast, Mark shares what we should be doing to train our mindsets to become more resilient during this COVID-19 pandemic and continue to get deals done.
Featured on this episode:
Resources:
- Book: A Mind for Sales: Daily Habits and Practical Strategies for Sales Success
- TheSalesHunter.com
- @TheSalesHunter
- Mark on Linkedin
Transcript
Mark:
Selling hasn’t changed. But, boy, psychologically everybody’s been hit. And I think without a doubt, if you can’t get yourself mentally framed to be in the game right now, it’s going to be a long journey. What you hear, see, and read becomes what you think. The only person who can motivate you is yourself.
Will Barron:
Hello, sales nation. I’m Will Barron, host of The Salesman Podcast, the world’s most downloaded B2B sales show. On today’s episode, we have the legend. You’ve been on the show a bunch of times now. We have Mark Hunter, author of A Mind for Sales, a brand new book. It’s available on Amazon right now. It’s available in the show notes for this episode, over at salesman.org, alongside everything else that we talk about on this episode. And we’re diving into how you can, not just survive during this global pandemic that we’re all facing, how you can thrive in it as well.
How Salespeople Can Get Through the Pandemic-Induced Changes We’re Currently Experiencing · [01:20]
Will Barron:
The mindset, the sales process changes, working from home, a lot more. You don’t want to miss this episode, so let’s jump right into it. And we’re going to dive into selling in the economy, the environment, and everything we’re at right now. And yeah, let me just get the data just to… Because this will come out in a few days, time from recording, just to give everyone context in case anything changes in the meantime. It’s the 27th of March today. And yeah, Mark, in a world where there’s COVID-19, the economy seems to be on a downward spiral. It’s peaked the past few days and it’s going back and forth. And there’s probably multiple elements that we could dive into on that.
Will Barron:
In a world where, though, my audience, your audience, sales nation are feeling burnt out, stressed, and unsure, maybe, is the best word to describe how myself and maybe yourself and sales people who are listening are feeling right now, is this to get through this, to break through this, is this a change that we’ve got to make psychologically? Is this a software tool change that we need to make? Is this a process change that we need to make? How do we get through this period of uncertainty, Mark?
“Selling hasn’t changed, but boy, psychologically everybody’s been hit. And I think without a doubt, if you can’t get yourself mentally framed to be in the game right now, it’s going to be a long journey.” – Mark Hunter · [02:13]
Mark:
It is 98% psychological, 2% process. And I firmly believe that. Really, selling hasn’t changed, but boy, psychologically everybody’s been hit. And I think without a doubt, if you can’t get yourself mentally framed to be in the game right now, it’s going to be a long journey. And here’s the whole thing, and this is what I tell all my clients, I tell sales managers I’m talking to, et cetera. You’ve got to check the psyche of your salespeople every day, because you could have salespeople who one day are totally up and the next day, boom, they’re totally down. This is a day by day moment. And that’s impacting everything that we do, because we see companies going through changes fast. So psychologically… Because really the only tweaks we need to do in the process is really accelerate the process. Because if you really stop and think about this… I had a situation the other day where a gentlemen called me, and he’s actually a buyer of SaaS programmes. He’s a buyer of SaaS programmes.
Mark:
He suddenly got word that he’s being furloughed for six weeks. So guess what happens to any decision he was about to make? Not going to happen. You see, so what we have to do right now is we have to sell with expediency and speed, which means we really got to keep it simple. But all of this comes back to the psychological. I mean, how are you framing your mind? That’s why my book, A Mind for Sales, that’s why I’m really kind of excited about it. Because I think it’s a great message at the right time.
How to Check your Own Psyche as a Salesperson to Make Sure Your Mind Stays on Track · [03:40]
Will Barron:
So, we’re going to come back to process, keeping it simple, in a second, because that is a series of podcasts or workshops in its own right, I’m sure. But before that you mentioned checking the psyche. So let’s assume that we don’t have the best sales managers listening right now. We need to check our own psyche so we can take control of the situation. What does that process look like? What does that mean, practically? Is this a, we sit there and we journal? Is this, we ring up and get therapy over the phone? What do we need to do, Mark, to make sure that we’re on track to not just survive this period, but perhaps even win some business and thrive within it?
“You got to remember what you hear, see, and read becomes what you think.” – Mark Hunter · [04:13]
Mark:
Well, this really kind of interesting, because you got to remember, what you hear, see, and read becomes what you think. What you hear, see, and read. Absolutely. And what’ll happen is, if we start the day off by looking at news sites online, watching the telly, whatever it is, it is amazing how we’re going to get pretty wonky, because the news isn’t too great. But now keep in mind, everybody’s got a horse in this race. Everybody. The news media has a horse in this race, because they’ve got to make sure that they paint bad pictures because it creates eyeballs, it creates readers, that creates advertising. The politicians have all got… You know, everybody’s got a… But here’s the whole thing. What’s your mind telling you? What I’m telling people is this, hey, I want to be informed. I want to know what’s going on in the world.
“The only person who can motivate you is yourself. Don’t look to your boss to motivate you. All your boss can do is create an environment and a culture.” – Mark Hunter · [05:05]
Mark:
I do look at the news every day. But I don’t dwell on it. My whole objective, and this is what I’m going to encourage every salesperson out there… Because again, the only person who can motivate you is yourself. Don’t look to your boss to motivate you. All your boss can do is create an environment and a culture, [inaudible 00:05:16] but it’s up to you because it’s in your mind. So here’s what I tell them. I say, look, my objective today is to influence and impact people. To me, that’s an honour. I don’t care what’s going on out there. It’s an honour to be able to influence and impact people positively. And I may not be able to close a sale today. That’s fine. I understand that. But I can at least earn the right, the privilege, honour and respect to have a meaningful conversation with somebody.
Mark:
Because there’s more conversations going on out there today than ever before. Because people are socially disconnected. I hear from salespeople all the time that, I’m getting conversations with people I never had before. But what is this about? It’s about influence and impact, because my whole goal is to say, how do I create a level of respect, a level of accountability, and a level of trust with that person? Now, here’s where this goes even further. If I can have a conversation with you, and I don’t need to talk to you about COVID, you’ll probably talk to me. Because this is what I’m telling salespeople. Listen to everyone’s back story, just as we were doing before we hit record. You shared, I shared, we both shared a little bit about our back story, and everybody has a personal and a professional back story. Listen to it, take the time to listen to it. But you know what you’re going to do?
“I firmly believe how we as salespeople treat our customers today is how our customers will treat us post-covid.” – Mark Hunter · [06:51]
Mark:
You can create a social connection with people. And I firmly believe as we, as salespeople, treat our customers today is how our customers will treat us PC. And I’m not talking politically correct, I’m talking post-COVID. Now, I’m trying to get business during this period, but I also know that there are some decisions that are not going to happen until we get to PC, post-COVID. But that day’s coming, that day is coming. It always is. You can go back… I’m going on a little bit of a rant, but go back, and if you were to go back to the ’50s, when polio, and measles, and various very scary, at that time, scary, but now we have vaccines and they’re taken care of… The medical community, the research community is incredibly brilliant. Great days are coming. We will get this behind us. Okay, I’ll get off my soapbox.
Will Barron:
I guess there’s multiple layers to all of this, Mark, where we use the term emotional intelligence, or there’s probably other copyrighted book-written terms that we could lean on here, but we’ll stick on emotional intelligence because I think most of the audience will have heard that before. So there’s two layers. We’ve got to manage our own emotional intelligence, which you mentioned. Environment, so controlling when we’re watching the news, what we’re watching, what we’re consuming. If you’re just about to start selling for the day, perhaps tune out of the news and catch up a bit later on, however your coping strategy is. And that’s my coping strategy. I don’t consume until recently the news at all. My rule of thumb basically is if it’s not affecting me and my family, or one person adjacent to me, a friend, or my partner’s in the NHS, she’s a doctor.
How to Manage Your Buyer’s Emotional Intelligence By Eliminating Conversations About COVID-19 From a Sales Call · [08:45]
Will Barron:
If it’s not affecting the NHS or it’s about doing sales training, businesses, anything like that, I don’t feel that it’s all that relevant to me. So I try and avoid it the best I can. So we control our own environment, so that’s one way of managing our own emotional intelligence. But to start having these conversations with people, and connecting with them, and building that trust that perhaps we are saving it up in the trust bank of that individual, that we can then draw it out later on when we start, not perhaps pivoting, but the conversation moves towards a product or sale when cashflow is back in the market, when people are available to spend. How do we go about managing their emotional intelligence, so that we can have a conversation with them without it just reverting back to COVID-19 and being depressed and everyone being ill and upset?
“We become the sum of the five people we associate with the most. I didn’t come up with that line. I believe that was Jim Rome who came up with that line. So if you stop and think about this, who are you associating with? You’ve got to make sure that you’re associating with positive people.” – Mark Hunter · [09:46]
Mark:
Yeah. Two things here. First of all, like this morning, I get up about 4:30am. And by 5:30am, I had a series of text messages from various peers that I connect with, they’re in my mastermind groups. And they’re all positive. Hey, what’s going on? Here’s what happened yesterday. Here’s a lake that I saw, it’s beautiful. Went for a bike ride, and all that sort of stuff. And, because here’s something very interesting. We become the sum of the five people we associate with the most. I didn’t come up with that line. I believe that was Jim Rome who came up with that line. So if you stop and think about this, who are you associating with? So you got to make sure that you’re associating with positive people. And here’s what I really have found.
“If you’ve ever talked to a negative person, have you ever noticed how they can bring you down? But the same token, you speak to a positive person and they can bring you up. Guess what? You’re having the same effect on other people.” – Mark Hunter · [10:05]
Mark:
It’s amazing how, if you ever talked to a negative person, and have you ever noticed how they can bring you down? But same token, you speak to a positive person and they can bring you up. Guess what? You’re having the same effect on other people. People tell me, Mark, you are so upbeat, you’re so positive. So, well you’re right, I am. Because here’s what I found. The more I’m upbeat to you, the more positive I am to you, the more upbeat I become. You see, what happens is, as we help fuel other people, we lift ourselves up too. And this right now is absolutely critical. I was just, before we got on to do the show, I was on the phone with a VP of sales. And he’s a very positive VP of sales. And he’s now in a work from home environment.
Mark:
And we were kind of joking. I said… I don’t know where he lives. I just know he lives in a house. And I said, I have a feeling you’re probably sitting out on your patio right now, or a deck or something like that. He says, well, I can hear birds in the background. Oh, by the way, I heard your patio door open as you walked outside. And we both kind of chuckle and laugh, this, yeah, it’s a new world. But you know what? This isn’t all that bad, you know. Looking for the positive, looking for the positive. Now more than ever, we have to reach inside. And this is where I get concerned. If we have been so reliant on the apps and the tools and all the mechanics of selling, and ignoring our mindset, this is like having the most unbelievable home gym to work out in, but you sit there and smoke three packs a day of cigarettes.
Mark:
Okay? You know? I mean, hello, excuse me. I may have the best equipment, but if I’m not taking care of myself… And this is what… The three packs a day of cigarettes is all this external news that we are taking in, and you’ve got to limit it, you got to limit it. Or cut it out, depending on who you are. I have some in-laws that are 85 and 83 years of age. And needless to say, they’re really at risk if they were to get this. And they also stress out. My wife and I told them the other day, you cannot watch the news. Do not watch the news.
Mark:
Because the last thing we need for them to do is to get wound up in the news. What happens? They get more stressed out and that puts them more at risk for just everything. We have to limit ourselves. Look at a five-year-old kid, look at a 10-year old kid. Do you think they’re caught up in this? No. They’re just like, we have to stay in doors? Can we play? Can we play? Can we play? See? They’re adjusting to their environment. They may not get it, but they’re adjusting to it. We as adults need to take lessons from our kids.
Sales is not Customer Service · [13:40]
Will Barron:
Saw an hilarious meme a few days ago. And it was a big, beautiful golden retriever. And it was a fake news headline, or I’m probably going to butcher it now. But it’s essentially saying, dogs are going crazy with the fact that all of the friends are at home, and just going mental with all the playtime that they’ve got. So, obviously dogs even less conscious than children. So that there is definitely something to that. But, Mark, I want to ask you this mate, because Joe Normal, if you had this conversation a few weeks ago, or maybe a few months ago, perhaps, and we were just talking about just building trust, putting, not necessarily sales, but putting influence and all that side of the sales process on the back burner for the moment, I would have said you were crazy and we should be, not necessarily being aggressive in our sales process, but it should be top of mind, right?
Will Barron:
And a quote from your book that I wrote down was, “Sales is not customer service.” And so there’s obviously a clear differentiation between the two. So how do we, in this process, still sell and not to become a customer service person? Or is that what we are, I don’t want to say relegated to, but pushed towards for this next one month, two month period, as all of this kicks off? Is that what we should be doing?
“Sales is about creating incremental value, incremental opportunities. And I’m challenging salespeople, you may be dealing with existing customers. You may be focused just on those right now, but you still have to ask yourself, how am I bringing incremental value, incremental opportunities? Are you now more than ever the research and development department to your customers? This is so critical right now.” – Mark Hunter · [14:44]
Mark:
Yeah. There’s a natural tendency, in a period like we’re in right now, to focus just on customer service. And I’m telling all my clients, I’m telling everybody I coach, yeah, we’ve got to focus on existing customers, got to make sure that you’re taking care of them. But all along the way… This is where I get a problem with customer service and sales. Sales is about creating incremental value, incremental opportunities. And I’m challenging salespeople. You may be dealing with existing customers. You may be focused just on those right now, but you still have to ask yourself, how am I bringing incremental value, incremental opportunities? Are you now more than ever the research and development department to your customers? This is so critical right now. Because again, normal lines of communication, normal processes, have broken down. They’re not there. I had a conversation the other day with the CEO of a smaller company in a manufacturing space that’s very critical to the infrastructure of the United States.
Mark:
And he was sharing with me little things about how he’s got 15 people working one production line. And he’s absolutely scared if one of them should come down with COVID, because then he’d have to self-quarantine. And he does, he says, I don’t know if I’d be able to restaff and I don’t know what we’d do. And what they do is very critical to the infrastructure. And that got me thinking, that suddenly got me thinking. And what was very interesting was I took that comment that he made and ran back to another company I work with that provides equipment to manufacturing facilities. And the equipment they provide is really designed to help you reduce labour, is designed to help you make a more efficient product, yada, yada, yada. You’ve heard all those things. And I said, hey, wait a minute. We’ve got a critical need right here. This equipment that you provide allows not only for fewer employees in the production area, but allows them to be safe. You’re helping a company be COVID-resistant.
“Even in times of crisis, there are opportunities. We just have to listen, and listen more.” – Mark Hunter · [17:04]
Mark:
You created a new value, a new outcome, you see. So what I’m seeing right now is this is information that is critical for their customers, both existing and prospects, to hear. Because, as I’m talking with this guy, every day, he says, I meet with my HR team, because we have to map out how we can keep things going if something were to happen. And so I’m sitting there and I’m thinking to myself, wow, wow. You see, even in times of crisis there are opportunities. We just have to listen, listen more. Now this is what’s very interesting. I’m going to share with you how this conversation came about with this CEO. He’s a client of mine from several years ago. Haven’t done any work with him for several years. But a week ago I began curating content that I found valuable and sending it out to various CEOs of clients.
Mark:
And I sent it out to some prospects and I sent it to him. He got it. He immediately picked up the phone and called me back. That’s how we got in that conversation. You see, because I reached out, played R&D, sharing with him some insights that I’m learning, what do I see happening out there. He saw it as valuable. He picked up the phone and called me. Am I getting a piece of business out of this right now? I don’t know, but I’m sure I will. Pretty soon. Within the next 60 to 90 days. You see, so was that customer service or was that sales? Well, customer service. He’s not an existing customer of mine right now. Was it sales? I brought him new insights, new information, that in turn creates incremental opportunities. And oh, by the way, because of the information you shared with me, I was able to share it with other people. You see, right now, the role of the salesperson is more important than ever. We are the town crier to the industries we operate in. And I count that a privilege.
Will Barron:
So I think in the, what do you call these, individuals or this process of networking value becoming a difference maker, right? That’s how you describe it.
Mark:
Yes, it is. It’s because right now, more than ever, you have to be seen. See, I’ve always been on this bandwagon of trust and integrity and so forth. Well, guess what? It really has become exposed right now. It really has become exposed. And if you can’t live to those, if you can’t live, walk and talk, and act to those definitions, you’re not going to cut it in sales, period. You’re gone.
Quota Relief During the Pandemic · [19:30]
Will Barron:
Let me twist this slightly. Because I’ve got no experience in sales management. I know you’re involved and you coach and train sales managers and leaders, as well. From a sales management leadership perspective, if you are not hitting your quota right now, understandably so during a global pandemic, are quotas likely to be relaxed, less important? Should sales managers be encouraging individuals to go out there and do this, I’m not hesitant to call it just networking, because you’re sharing value and become a hub of your community, as you described it, of your industry. Should sales managers be promoting that? And, as a sales person listening to the show right now who perhaps, on Monday, Tuesday, next week, or whenever this show is, goes out and does it, should they be doing it in the knowledge that they’re not going to get sacked because they didn’t hit quota this month because of all the crap that’s going on?
“How you treat your employees right now is how they will treat you post-COVID.” – Mark Hunter · [20:45]
Mark:
Yes. Quotas need to be relaxed. Quotas need to be relaxed right now. Now, that doesn’t mean just sit back in la la land. No, it’s just that we are going to be chasing a little different piece of businesses in different ways. So there are not going to be necessarily straight lines. We may have a quota built around existing customers that are suddenly shut down, because they’ve had to shut down or they’re in an industry that’s just been decimated by this. So no, you have to give quota relief. Here’s what I’m telling every sales manager. Remember, how you treat your employees right now is how they will treat you post-COVID. Think about that for a moment. If you treat them with respect, and oh, by the way, you treat them with respect and you listen to their back story, they will be far more likely to listen to their customers’ back story.
“This is the time when sales leaders really become sales leaders. This is not the time to be the spreadsheet jockey, or where you manage the CRM dashboard.” – Mark Hunter · [21:40]
Mark:
You treat them with respect and integrity, in terms of being flexible, in terms of, oh, we need to do this call at 6:00am because you got to do it before your kids get up. Totally understanding. We need to be flexible, because, oh, I see, so we can’t quite meet today because you got to take care of this. We’ll catch up later on in the evening, fine. You have to create flexibility. But that does not excuse us from accountability of what the mission and the objective is of the salesperson and the company that they work for. But this is the time when sales leaders really become sales leaders. This is not the time to be the spreadsheet jockey, or where you manage the CRM dashboard. Let me tell you something. I want to take you people. This is going to be dark, but I want to give you COVID right now. Don’t spit that coffee up.
Will Barron:
I am not on board with this mass genocide of sales managers, but I understand the point. I understand the point and I’m sure the audience do as well. Okay. Right. From that perspective then, Mark, hopefully… Because loads of sales managers and leaders listen to the show, but the show is for salespeople. That’s who I care about. So hopefully that paints a picture for everyone who’s listening and the environment that they’re working in that they should be focused on being a difference-maker right now, rather than shoving their pictures down people’s throats, which they probably shouldn’t have been doing before.
Right Now Is the Perfect Time to Provide Value to Prospects and Squeeze Out Potential Business from Your Pipeline · [22:33]
Will Barron:
So with all that said, and we’ll wrap up the show with this, Mark. How do we know if we are actually being effective or not right now? Because normal sales process, you might have different elements of your funnel, your CRM might have broken all this up. Hopefully you know in your pipeline where everyone’s at, you know the next stages, you’ve got the ultimate goal of crushing your quota at the end of the quarter of the year. If you don’t know where you’re at in sales, you’re doing it wrong, as far as I’m concerned. But right now, what mechanisms, what processes, what should we be trying to do each day so that we know that we’re actually being effective and we’re not being, not necessarily saying lazy, but more ineffective with our time, which could happen working from home?
“Don’t take anything for granted that’s in your pipeline. You may have had things in your pipeline that, “oh, this is a normal deal. I’m going to fall back within a month.” No, no, you need to follow up much more frequently.” – Mark Hunter · [23:17]
Mark:
Spot on. Spot on. First of all, don’t take anything for granted that’s in your pipeline. You may have had things in your pipeline that, oh, this is a normal deal. I’m going to fall back within a month. No, no, you need to follow up much more frequently. But don’t follow up by saying touch… I got a touch base email this morning. Give me a break, please. It’s bringing new value. It’s really helping them navigate through this period. So it’s bringing them some sort of insight. So anything in your pipeline, I’m telling every sales person out there, you’ve got to be touching base with… touching base, no. You got to be connecting with and bringing value to, on a far more frequent basis, because here’s the risk that we have.
“If you have the ability to impact somebody, if you have the ability to help somebody, it’s your obligation to get in touch with them.” – Mark Hunter · [24:35]
Mark:
You may have something in your pipeline, we’ll say at stage three or stage four of your pipeline, and you’re ready to put you off on the table and so forth, and they were just needing to get… What’ll happen is, this could be 30, 60, 90 days before they come back together. And then the company says, we’re going to reset, we’re going to rethink everything. So suddenly that deal that you had, that was right there, disappears… is to go back to square one. So you got to make sure that you keep stuff actively moving. Everything. Don’t take anything for granted in your pipeline. You can’t. Second piece that you got to understand is there are prospects out there that you can be reaching out to. Because here’s the whole thing. If you have the ability to impact somebody, if you have the ability to help somebody, it’s your obligation to get in touch with them. I was on the phone yesterday with a SaaS company, and they have some really cool software. And we were talking, I was talking with the VP of sales, and the CMO and so forth.
Mark:
And we were saying that you really have to dial up, dial up right now because the tool that you have is going to enable people to work from home more efficiently, more effectively. Don’t run from this. You see, there are opportunities out there, but if you don’t have the right headset, you don’t have the right mindset, believe me, you will never see them. That’s why I’m kind of excited about my book, A Mind for Sales. Yeah. Yeah. It’s cool. It’s right there on the screen. I got it right there, too. There you go, man.
Mark’s Thoughts on How the Pandemic is Going to Affect the Sales Industry Moving Forward · [25:40]
Will Barron:
Good stuff. Well, one final question on this, Mark, and then we’ll wrap things up, mate. And this is just out of interest as opposed to no one really knows. But other than the obvious of perhaps it’s going to be more flexible working environments, offices might shrink because people are working from home and desk sharing rather than everyone being in a boiler room sales environment, how else do you think that this global pandemic, this change, is going to affect the sales industry moving forward?
“During this whole work-from-home issue, you need to stay focused and have a routine to keep yourself disciplined. Because otherwise, you’ll slip out of the mode real quick.” – Mark Hunter · [26:35]
Mark:
Well, it’s going to put more pressure, more needs, on the sales manager, the front line sales manager. Because managing people remotely is more difficult than managing them if they’re in the same room. So it’s really going to increase the need for better leadership skills. It’s also going to increase the need for really more discipline. One of the reasons you have people in an office is because they stay focused. So guess what? We’re as individuals going to have to… And this is what I’m telling everybody. During this whole work from home issue, you need to stay focused and have a routine to keep yourself disciplined. Because otherwise you’ll slip out of the mode real quick. And before you know it, you’re not very productive at all.
Mark’s Book: A Mind for Sales · [26:50]
Will Barron:
Amazing stuff. Well, with that, Mark, tell us a little bit about the book, where and when we can find it. And then we’ll wrap up with that.
Mark:
Well, the book is A Mind for Sales, and it’s coming out on Tuesday in the United States. And it’s coming out in the UK, I believe, in the month of April. We’re working to get the release date earlier. However, due to COVID, it’s impacting some shipping and so forth. But anyway, the book comes out, like I said, March 31st. Kindle, Audible, and so forth. And it’s really about helping you figure out your mindset. And you can go to amindforsales.com and that routes you over to my website, thesaleshunter.com. We’ve got some special stuff there. Pick up a copy of it, whatever form you’ve got. But I’m really excited about it. I’ve got a number of people say, how did you know, or how did you write this book so quick? And I said, I wrote this book a year ago. I didn’t realise the period we would be in right now. But the message is really, really relevant. Because if you don’t have the right mind, it ain’t going to happen.
Will Barron:
Good stuff. Well, I’ll link to that. The book [inaudible 00:27:55] in the show notes for this episode over at salesman.org. With that, Mark, I want to thank you for again, coming on the show, numerous times now, especially during this period. I’m sure you’ve got lots of other things that you should… not necessarily should but could be doing. So myself, sales nation, really appreciate your time specifically on this occasion. And thanks again for joining us on the Salesman Podcast.
Mark:
Thank you. Great selling.
