Dan Tyre is a 14-year-veteran of HubSpot, hired as employee number six, and the company’s first salesperson. On this episode of the Salesman Podcast, Dan Tyre explains, from start to finish, the entire HubSpot SaaS sales process.
Featured on this episode:
Resources:
- Dantyre.com
- Dan’s LinkedIn
- Book: Inbound Organization: How to Build and Strengthen Your Company’s Future Using Inbound Principles
- Book: Inbound Selling: How to Change the Way You Sell to Match How People Buy
- Crystal Knows – The personality platform for growing businesses.
Transcript
Will Barron:
This episode of the show is brought to you from the salesman.org HubSpot Studio.
Will Barron:
Coming up on today’s episode of The Salesman Podcast.
Dan Tyre:
There’s a tonne of things we’re going to talk about today that have changed. The one thing that hasn’t changed is the hardest part is getting to the right people.
Dan Tyre:
If you’re engaging professionally, people love it. They will respond to you. And in fact, in the classes that I teach, cohort-based training for HubSpot, the average connection is about 12%.
Dan Tyre:
The empowered buyer is they don’t talk to a salesperson until they’re damn good and ready. First of all, globally, about 93% to 96% of people will Google or social media something before they talk to a salesman.
Will Barron:
Hello, SalesNation. My name is Will Barron, and I’m the host of The Salesman Podcast, the world’s most downloaded B2B sales show.
Will Barron:
On today’s episode, we have the absolute legend, absolute legend, Dan Tyre. He was the original of HubSpot Sales Team. He is now a speaker, an author, an executive over at HubSpot. On today’s episode. Dan, step by step, tells you how to prospect for new buyers in 2021 and moving forward to 2022 and beyond. Everything that we talked about in this episode is available in the show notes over at salesman.org/Dan. And with that said, let’s jump right into it.
Will Barron:
Dan, welcome to The Salesman Podcast.
Dan Tyre:
Boom. I’ve been the waiting for this three weeks, bro, super excited. As you know, I did my research. I want to make sure I’m bringing the big energy for all of your listeners, and I’m super excited to be here.
The Reason Why Most Salespeople Struggle Having Conversations with Prospects · [01:39]
Will Barron:
I’m glad to have you on, mate. Okay, so you kind of posed me in our pre-interview back and forth, the topic of this show. I purposefully, I’ve not dove into it more of it with you, I purposefully left the open-ended. So Dan, with that, get us started, mate.
Will Barron:
In your opinion or if there’s facts of there’s data, there’s anything goes alongside this, perfect. What is the biggest hurdle that me, as a sales person, and the thousands and thousands of people are going to watch and view this over the next few weeks, those salespeople as well, what’s the biggest hurdle that we have to booking meetings, getting conversations started right now?
“The one thing that hasn’t changed in sales in the last 50 years is actually the hardest part and this is getting to the right people to even have a conversation with you.” – Dan Tyre · [02:20]
Dan Tyre:
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. And guess what? That hasn’t changed in the last 50 years. There’s a tonne of things we’re going to talk about today that have changed. The one thing that hasn’t changed is the hardest part is getting to the right people to even have that conversation. And in 2021, hold it, no one picks up their phone, or at least that’s what people say. By the way, that’s not true. So in the first two and a half minutes, I’ve contradicted myself. Lots of people pick up the phone. You just have to do it right.
Dan Tyre:
Number two, voicemail less, it’s kind of a different reason why people and how people listen to voicemail, still important, but it’s a little bit different purpose. And that hurdle of getting to the right person and talking to them about how it works, visibility, connection, and intention, is the biggest challenge that virtually everybody has. It takes the longest time. It’s a very refined skill.
Dan Tyre:
When I started my sales career, like salespeople did prospecting today, SDR teams, specific and focused. Make sure that everybody is doing a special part of accelerating and identifying the best output.
Are We Living in the Golden Age of Sales? · [03:30]
Will Barron:
Dan, let me just take this totally sideways for a second, then we’ll come back on track. Is this, everything you just said there, can we turn this on its head? Is this a golden age for salespeople in the fact that we have LinkedIn, the buyers are visible, and then we’ve got email. We’ve got all these ways to communicate with them that we didn’t have. Well, I didn’t have, because I wasn’t selling 20, 30 years ago.
“If you are engaging professionally, people love it. They will respond to you. And in fact, in the classes that I teach, the average connection is about 12%. After they graduate from the class, it goes between 25% and 40%.” – Dan Tyre · [03:55]
Dan Tyre:
Yeah, of course. It’s a double-edged sword. If in fact you’re doing it the right way, if you are engaging professionally, people love it. They will respond to you. And in fact, in the classes that I teach, cohort-based training for HubSpot, the average connection is about 12%. After they graduate from the class, it goes between 25% and 40%, and if you’re not getting 25% to 40% connections, I’m going to teach you how. Just listen for the next 17 minutes. And it may be a little loud and a lot of high energy, but I’m going to teach exactly how to do it. Because if you do it right, people love it. They’re like, “Oh my goodness. Yeah. I definitely want to talk with you.”
“Cold calling is using the same script, calling indiscriminately 110 times a day. And do you know the conversion percentage for actual cold calling? It’s 1.2%, which means you’re wasting 99% of your time, effort, and money.” – Dan Tyre · [04:52]
Dan Tyre:
But it’s different and you’re not calling everybody and you’re not cold calling. People go, “Oh, I’m not [inaudible 00:04:37].” I go, “You don’t cold call?” They go, “Yes.” I always ask in my phone presentations, “Raise your hand if you Coca.” There’s always three guys, they’re always in the last row. Always dudes, never women. And they’re like, “I cold call.” I go, “No, you don’t.” They’re like, “Yes, we call people that we’ve never met.” I’m like, “That’s not cold calling.” Cold calling is using the same script calling indiscriminately 110 times a day. And do you know the conversion percentage for actual cold calling?
Will Barron:
1%, 2%, 3%?
Dan Tyre:
Yeah, it’s 1.2%, which means you’re wasting 99% of your time, effort, and money. It’s ridiculous. Anybody who does it, they … Oh, is there anything else in business if you wasted 98% of your time, effort, and money you’d still do it? Of course not. That’s the antithesis of efficiency. But people still do it. I’m like, “What you got to do is warm call.” They’re like, “Ooh, what’s that?” I got a famous blog article about 15 things that you can do to warm call, and that’s what most people do. They just categorise it a little bit different. Outbound can be as effective as inbound.
Dan Tyre:
Now you and I were just chatting about the inbound revolution and how it was totally amazing. And I wrote a book called The Inbound Organisation, which you have in front of you, which is super cool. But I’ve been in sales positions and sales leadership positions 42 years. First 30 something years, it was push, push, push. Now it’s help, help, help.
Engaging with the Empowered Buyer · [06:01]
Dan Tyre:
In 2007, everything changed with the inbound revolution, because you had the empowered buyer. You ever heard with the empowered buyer?
Will Barron:
Yeah. I hope I am one.
“Globally, about 93% to 96% of people will Google or social media something before they talk to a salesperson.” – Dan Tyre · [06:22]
Dan Tyre:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You are. You just told me a story of what you are. The empowered buyer is they don’t talk to a salesperson until they’re damn good and ready. First of all, globally, about 93% to 96% of people will Google or social media something before they talk to a salesperson. And I’m thinking, what are the other 6% doing? They must be walking through an airport or something like that. Of course that’s what you do. Oh my goodness.
Dan Tyre:
You want to find a little bit about a background. You want to see reviews, you want to understand a little bit about the texture of what you’re purchasing. That’s why social media and inbound is so important. And then you only want to engage with salespeople when you’re darn good and ready. And what percentage of the sales process do you think people want to go through before they actually talk to a salesperson?
Will Barron:
The numbers are all over the place, but between 70%, 80%.
Dan Tyre:
Yeah, that’s right. And so it goes all the way up to 99% if you’re buying a car. When you’re buying a Mini, you walk into that place and you’re like, “Okay, I did my research. This is what I want to pay.” And if they don’t give it to you, you walk out, that’s 99%. That drastically changes the process. And so now with the empowered buyer, the inbound revolution has been going on for 14 years. It started in inbound marketing. Now it’s inbound sales, now it’s growth. Oh my goodness. HubSpot was the spiritual leader, invented the term. But now it’s in the public domain. And just like you were saying, it becomes very, very valuable. So salespeople have to morph.
Dan Tyre:
One of my main foundation is you can’t do it the old way. You have to do it the new way. That means you have to warm call in a way where you’re helping, not selling. And sales plus helping is shelping, I just thought that up this morning. Shelping, say it there, Will.
Will Barron:
No, because that is a terrible, terrible … I don’t want that to become a thing. Definitely don’t want. I was shelping people.
Dan Tyre:
I invented shmarketing. You’ve ever heard of shmarketing?
Will Barron:
That makes slightly more sense.
Dan Tyre:
Okay. I know, I know, a little bit more. But I’m famous for taking words and making them a more dopey word together. But shelping, or helping people, is the foundation for engagement. All right, so when you’re trying to get noticed by somebody, the first thing you got to do is you’ve got to identify your ideal customer profile. And in the old days, you called everybody.
Dan Tyre:
When I started my sales career, I’d pick up the phone and I’d call you. I’d called somebody in Spain. I’d call somebody in New York City and I’d say the exact same thing. That doesn’t fly. You got to get the data. You got to get the facts. You’ve got to understand where you do your best work. And you’ve got to limit where and who you call to where you can add the most value, where you get all excited and energised and you’re being like, “No, no, no. We work with manufacturing companies in Leads, who have at least $3 million worth of revenue, that are trying to get more productivity out of their website and want to lean into e-commerce. Does that sound like you?”
Dan Tyre:
And when you focus on that particular niche, you’re going to do so much better. Why are you going to do so much better if you focus, Will?
Why Targeting the Right People Drives the Best Results in Sales · [09:15]
Will Barron:
You’re going to do so much better when you focus because, well, it’s targeted. You’re having a conversation as opposed to your marketing. You’re not just spamming people. You’re starting an insightful conversation.
Dan Tyre:
100%. Number one, you know that industry pretty good because you talk about it every day. You know the vocabulary, you know the seasonality, you know what’s going on, they know … We’re just talking about my co-author, Todd Hockenberry, when he walks into a manufacturing distribution, he starts talking about patents and delivery time and I’m thinking … In the first three sentences, is you’re like, “Okay, this guy knows manufacturing in industrial.” And if it doesn’t matter if you’re professional services, recruiting, whatever, just pick a swim lane and stay in it.
“It doesn’t matter if you’re in professional services, recruiting, whatever, just pick a swim lane and stay in it. In the old days, it was call everybody. Today, the riches are in the niches.” – Dan Tyre · [09:50]
Dan Tyre:
In the old days, it was call everybody. Today, the riches are in the niches. Oh wait a second, we’re in the UK. If you want to go to the beaches, you got to work the niches. And you got to make sure that you are good at that.
Dan Tyre:
The next thing you got to do is let me-
Here’s How You Identify Your Ideal Prospects · [10:10]
Will Barron:
Dan, Dan, Dan. Slow down, slow down. Let me just reign you in for just a split second here. Because it’s one thing to say we need to find an ideal buyer persona. We need to target them with our messaging, our communications. For an individual salesperson, quota carrying individual who’s listening to this right now, is this something that they should be uncovering themselves? As in, they warm call, cold call, whatever, data gather across a marketplace, find who responds, narrow down the messaging? Or is this something that marketing should be giving them, sales operation should be giving them? Where do they get this information from of who they should be targeting?
Dan Tyre:
It’s awesome. It’s the latter if it is available, but if not, then you salespeople should figure it out their own. And guess what? They already know. They know when they call recruiting firms or podcast companies or marketing firms that they close in a higher clip. One of the key points of selling in 2021 that makes it better is you have access to all the data. If you have a modern CRM that shows you you’re closed percentage by vertical market, you know the areas where you’re closing deals at a 10%, as opposed to 90%. And if you’re smart, where do you spend the time?
Dan Tyre:
You spend time with a higher output where you’re getting a greater return on investment. And in the old days, we didn’t have access to that information. You couldn’t run reports like that in Siebel or Dynamics. It was impossible. Now, with modern CRM, you can get that information right there.
Dan Tyre:
So I’m all always looking at where I can provide the most value, where I get the best traction, and then I get to really understand that industry. I focus on, I understand. And then I’m like, “No, no, no, no. I work with professional services companies that practise inbound that are based in Leads, that have bestselling podcasts that want to get a little great speaker guest. Does that sound like you?”
Dan Tyre:
Now, when I start the conversation like that, what do you think?
Will Barron:
You think, “It’s me. It is me. This person is speaking directly to me.”
Dan Tyre:
You’re like, “Oh my goodness.” You’re looking around, going, “That’s weird. How does that guy know?” Guess what? I know you’re a chemistry major. I know you went to Bangor University. I know you went to Leads. I know you. It took me three minutes to find that out. And yes, you’re a little bit of a mini celebrity, but anybody you want, you can … You ever want to make somebody happy, you say, “Oh, Will, I just tweeted out that last Twitter promo about your upcoming …” And you’ll be like, “What?” You’re like, “Yeah, my 40,200 followers.” I don’t care if you have three Twitter followers.
Dan Tyre:
Once I retweet you, I’m in a different category. Now all of a sudden you’re like … Okay, so when you’re doing your outreach, you get your ideal customer profile. The next thing you do is you practise your greeting. And when I call you, I say … Ring, ring, say hello.
Will Barron:
Hello.
Dan Tyre:
Will, this is Dan from HubSpot.
Will Barron:
Hi, Dan from HubSpot.
Dan Tyre:
Thanks for picking up the phone. And when I say that, what do you feel?
Will Barron:
I feel confused because that’s not what I’m expecting.
Dan Tyre:
Ah, yes. You’re like, “What? Who? What?” So the first time you hear, the first … What I tell everybody, when you’re going in the engagement, you got to make sure you have good voice tone when you call. When I call, you know it’s me. Now you don’t have to be Dan Tyre with the big energy, because if I thought you were … I actually, I should use the small energy because you’re a super smart guy. I’d be like, “Will, this is Dan from HubSpot.” Very articulate-
Will Barron:
If you call like that, I’d be thinking that you were thinking I’m thick if you’re talking that slow.
Dan Tyre:
No, not necessarily, but I want to … And as soon as you jump in with your big energy, then I’m going to match it, behaviour modification. There is a plugin for LinkedIn called Crystal Knows that will give me the personality characteristics of the person I’m talking to. But I can see it in the picture. And with a little bit research, I can understand whether I go big energy, medium energy, low energy.
“Unfortunately, a lot of people who are outbound calling don’t sound interested. They sound bored. They don’t sound like they want to talk with the prospects.” – Dan Tyre · [14:05]
Dan Tyre:
Anyway, I want to sound good. I want to sound sharp. A lot of people who are doing outbound calling, they don’t sound interested. They sound bored. They don’t sound like they want to talk with me. I sound like I want to talk them and-
How to Get Yourself Riled Up Before a Sales Call · [14:16]
Will Barron:
One second though, how do you turn that on? Again, it’s one thing to say or make the … use describing words. How do you turn that on? Clearly this is a skill that you have. It’s something that I don’t necessarily have.
Dan Tyre:
No, you have it.
Will Barron:
I have to listen to, for example, I listen to music before a podcast episode and get myself riled up for it.
Dan Tyre:
No, it’s all right. You can do it.
Will Barron:
How do you go about just switching that up?
Dan Tyre:
This is how you do it. Number one, two cups of Guatemalan coffee. That’ll get anybody rocked. Number two, stand up. When you sit down, all the stress goes through your shoulder. You’re thinking, “Oh, this is a business kind of thing.” I’m moving around here, Will. I’m lifting weights. I’m boxing. I’m walking around. And the brain is a very interesting thing and when I say, “Will, this is Dan from HubSpot.” You don’t think like, “Dan from HubSpot.” You’re going through a little bit, it placed what we call your lizard brain with the Seth Godin … Do you know Seth Godin?
Will Barron:
Yep. Of course.
Dan Tyre:
Okay. The baldheaded marketing guru. Not Seth Rogan, the guy, the Canadian comedian who smokes a lot of dope.
Will Barron:
You’re talking purple cows, not smoking weed.
Dan Tyre:
Yeah, you got it. He’s like, “Okay, when you are connecting with somebody the first time on the phone, they don’t really think through with their executive functioning. They go right to your caveman brain.” And I’m like, “Yes, that’s true.”
Dan Tyre:
So when I say, “Will, this is Dan from HubSpot.” You may take between three and sometimes 25 seconds thinking, “Okay, Dan from HubSpot, do I know this guy? Is he my cousin? Did I like root for … Did I go to college with him? What did I do? How did I …” And you’re going through and then you’re going to do exactly what you’re going to say. You may be confused. You’re going to be like, “Yes?” And then that’s where the line, “Thanks for picking up the phone,” comes in.
Dan Tyre:
We used to say, “How are you doing today?” But if I ask you, “How are you doing?” How do you feel?
Will Barron:
I feel like there’s a salesperson on the other end of the phone.
Dan Tyre:
Exactly. You put me in a category, I’m never going to get out of that. So what we found about four years ago is if I say, “Will, thanks for picking up the phone.” You’re like, “Okay, that’s flat out weird.” I’ve already sent you two curve balls in the first 12 seconds and I’m totally in control. And you’re like, “Okay” And then you’ll say, “Okay, why are you calling me?” Or, “How can I help you?” And I’ll be like, “Ugh, it doesn’t sound like you’re expecting my call.”
Dan Tyre:
Now in the UK, there’s not a lot of uggers and I have to kind of push people to ugh, then that’s … No one in the UK would say that. I have lots of people who call me in the UK that say that. And what you’ll hear is people chuckle or they’ll say, “What did you just say?” And I’m like, “Ugh.” You got to lean in the GH. Just do it. Do your ugh. Do it.
Will Barron:
Ugh.
Dan Tyre:
Okay. It’s a little too harsh, but this is the first time you did it in front of 700,000. That’s awesome. It’s ugh, kind of a funny ugh. It doesn’t sound like you’re expecting their call and they’re like, “I wasn’t.”
How to Address Resistance Even Before it Pops Up · [17:00]
Dan Tyre:
Now, you’re going to address resistance. Now you’re going to say, “Will, I saw that you run a great sales podcast. I listened to that episode, number 67, where you had sales leaders talking about the most difficult part of sales process, I saw that you have the number one rated podcast, and I work with inbound companies that want to double their podcast listeners in the next 12 months. Does that sound like you?” And what would you say if I said that?
Will Barron:
I’d say yes.
Dan Tyre:
Exactly. And then I’m going to stroke my chin, stroke your chin. Get that beard going. Stroke your chin and you say [crosstalk 00:17:37]
Will Barron:
This might sound weird in the microphone from rubbing this, Dan.
Dan Tyre:
Yeah, I know. Tell me-
Will Barron:
People might get weird feelings here in my rustle of the beard.
Dan Tyre:
Okay. This is the chin stroke question. If I don’t have you stroke your chin, you’ll forget it. But you have three connect call positions here. So here’s the thing, you have your ideal customer profile. Then you research the company, just like we’ve demonstrated. You perfect your opening. “Will, this is Dan from HubSpot.” If you don’t say that 1,000 times, I want the dog to walk out of the room. I want your significant other to say, “Really? Okay, we know it’s Dan from HubSpot.” But I want it to sound like I really want to talk with you.
Dan Tyre:
And then you want to be human. If somebody sounds like they’re having a tough day, I’m like, “Okay, Will, sounds like you’re having a tough day.” And you’re like, “Why are you calling me?” I’m like, “Will, do you want me to sing you a song? Do you want me to tell you a joke?” They’re like, “No.” I’m like, “Ugh, doesn’t sound like you’re expecting my call.” And they’re like, “I’m not.” And you’re like, “Okay. I work with business leaders who are podcasts who are trying to extend their programme, does that sound like you?”
Dan Tyre:
And then you’re going to say, “Yes.” If you say, “No,” I didn’t do enough research. Because it’s all online. I know everything about you, and we’ve never met before, 12 minutes before. And now, then I’m saying, “Okay. I also work with business leaders who have been practising inbound, who like to read business books and who believe inbound is a leadership principle. Does that sound like you?” And you’re like, “Yeah, that sounds like me.” Stroke chin. “Tell me more about that.”
Dan Tyre:
Now you’re starting to talk. Now I’m getting a feel for who you are. I’m listening, I’m reviewing. Then eight to 10 minutes in, after you’re telling me all this kind of stuff, sometimes you’ll say, “What do you want to know?” I’ll say, “Everything. Give me the eight minute version. I want to understand.”
Dan Tyre:
Now I want. First of all, I got you to smile when I said, “Ugh.” Second of all, now you’re talking, which is the hardest part. Third of all, halfway through the conversation, I’m going to say, “Hold on one second, Will. What I hear you say is.” And when I say, “Will, what I hear you say,” what am I doing?
Will Barron:
I hear you say you’re acknowledging that you’re listening.
“Active listening is the single key thing that prospects are looking for in a salesperson.” – Dan Tyre · [19:51]
Dan Tyre:
It’s called active listening and it’s the single key thing that prospects are looking for in a salesperson.
Will Barron:
It’s a good job I answered that one then, otherwise it would look like I’ve just been zoning out for the past 15 minutes.
Dan Tyre:
Yeah, that’s right. No, no, no. It’s good a thing. You’re paying attention. But I want to make sure these … Active listening is so important. It’s why introverts and women tend to be a little bit better at the prospecting function because they actually listen. Guys, just talk about-
Will Barron:
Do you have, not you personally, is the data on that, I’d love to see if that’s been studied.
Dan Tyre:
I have to dig. That’s my own per personal experience. But everybody says, “You’re a born salesperson.” I’m like, “No, that’s not true.” It used to be true when sales was the land of misfit toys. If you couldn’t code, you couldn’t write, they’re like, “Okay, maybe you can take somebody to lunch.” And that was what sales was in the 1980s.
“Salespeople have to figure out the way in which they present the information so that the empowered buyer understands that, number one, you know his or her problem. Number two, you’re asking the right questions so that they think about the problem in a way that they might not have thought of.” – Dan Tyre · [20:50]
Dan Tyre:
Now, it’s hyper-thoughtful, super intelligence, psychology, focus, and engaging with people. That’s why it’s so much fun. It’s different all the time. And you have to figure out the way in which you present the information so that the empowered buyer understands that, number one, you know his problem, or her problem. Number two, you’re asking the right questions so that they think about the problem in a way that they might not have thought of.
Dan Tyre:
Lots of times people cycle in and they’re like, “This is what I need.” And you’re like, “Okay, Will, have you thought of this, this and this?” And they’re like, “Actually, no.” And then you’re like, “Okay, so lots of people ask for this, but what they’re really looking for is this.” That’s the change. You’re not telling them how much it costs, what colour comes in, can you carry it up a flight of stairs? What you’re doing is explaining to them how they can redefine the problem. All right.
Dan Tyre:
So after eight minutes of them talking, you’re like, “Okay, that’s kind of interesting. It sounds like there’s some business pain around this particular issue.” You’ve already proven, number one, that you’re willing to talk with them. Number two, you’ve proven that you can have a short conversation where you can get them talking. Number three, you’ve been very overt in saying, “What I hear you say?” So you’re honouring them.
Dan Tyre:
Now, that lasts from 12 to 15 minutes, which is hard for many salespeople. Because you’ll go through, have three of these conversations a day and you won’t have talked to anybody since early this morning and then this person wants to talk to you. But at 15 minutes, the best practise is to stop and say, “All right. Will, sounds like there’s something to talk about. This was a little bit of an interruption call, so what I’d like to do is I’d like to reengage. What are you doing tomorrow?” And you’ll like, “I got some openings.” I’m like, “Okay, are you a coffee person or a tea person?”
Dan Tyre:
What’s the answer to that? Are you coffee or tea?
Will Barron:
Both, if that doesn’t ruin it. I’m a coffee AM, tea PM.
Dan Tyre:
Okay. “So I want to strategically schedule time after your second cup of coffee.” So you’re ready to go. You’re like, “I have all the answers to my question.” And then I want to schedule either 25 minutes or 50 minutes to ask you some questions around this issue.
Dan Tyre:
A connect call is what we call it in the flywheel model, lasts for 15 minutes. It engages, it uses those connect call positioning statements. It’s all about you. They go, “Why? Who are you again? Tyre from HubSpot?” I’m like, “Dan from HubSpot. Don’t worry about that. All I want to make sure is that you know that I know about you, that I have helped you identify that this may be something that is worth spending a little bit of time on.”
Dan Tyre:
They may say, “No, not right now.” They may be in consider, they may be in just visibility mode. And I’m like, “Okay. I’d like to just drill down into a little more just to make sure that I understand if this is a good fit or not. We’ll spend 25 minutes. I’ll ask you a series of questions. You can ask me some questions and we’ll determine if there’s a reason for move forward.”
Dan Tyre:
That’s called a discovery call. That’s the goal of the connect call. And the discovery call, oh my goodness, in 2021, it’s new close call. You ask the right questions on the discovery call and you will get that deal. They should look across the Zoom at you or the Skype at you and they should say, “Will, those are the right questions to ask. Who are you, once again? Oh my goodness.” And then you can proceed from there.
Dan Tyre:
Now I got one other point though, because in 2021, when people say that people don’t pick up the phone, they’re kind of right. And how many times do you have to call somebody to be professionally persistent?
Will Barron:
10, 20?
Dan Tyre:
Okay. The best practise is you’re going to call somebody four times over 12 days. The first time I call you, there’s only a 4% to 7% chance that you’re going to pick up. Sometimes you see my 602 number and you’re like, “Who? Who’s 602? I wonder who that is?” Usually it’ll go right to voicemail. Even in the UK, I leave a voicemail, but my voicemail is different because you’re going to see a transcribed content on it on your iPhone. But I still leave a voicemail.
Dan Tyre:
And then I send an email and in the email, it’s your name first, an ampersand, my name, my company, trying to connect. And it’s, “Will, as per my voicemail.” And then just two lines. “I’m reaching out because I saw that you want to get more listeners to your podcast. I’m reaching out because I saw that you had that great post on LinkedIn. I’m reaching out because I’m connecting with business owners in Leads who are trying to get more growth. And I’ve included my Calendar link in my email, just set up 15 minutes and I’m going to show you how I can help. See how I can help.”
Dan Tyre:
I send it out. It’s like, it used to be you had two paragraphs. Today if you have more than two sentences, you’re not doing it right. Then you have the first time and the statistics say you’re going to pretty much ignore that. Which the next thing you got to do is you wait two days and I call again. Now you see the 602 number, which not a lot of 602 people are calling you, but you’re saying, “Oh wait a second. Wait, that seems a little familiar.”
Dan Tyre:
I leave a second voicemail. It’s a little bit different, but it’s all about you. It’s not, “This is Dan calling to talk about technology or do you need a CRM?” It’s like, “Oh my goodness. Will, thanks so much for mentioning him on that podcast. I saw that you are leaning into a warm calling and I wanted to see how I could help.” I send the second email. The second email says, “Will and Dan.” It says, “Second ping.”
Dan Tyre:
Do you know what a ping is?
Will Barron:
In this context, just second touch?
“The biggest transformation in prospecting, since the beginning of prospecting, is including video in your prospecting email.” – Dan Tyre · [26:50]
Dan Tyre:
Yeah. A second touch, second. A ping comes from sonar in a submarine. It’s like ping, ping. Some people who are over 50 don’t really understand what it is. But most people like your age demographic, they’re like, “Yeah, he’s trying to reach out again.” And then I say, “Will, as per my second call, I want to spend 15 minutes with you, see how I can get in touch.” And in that one, I include a video. And the biggest transformation in prospecting, since the beginning of prospecting, is including video in your prospecting email. And you can use HubSpot video. You can use video. You can use Loom. You can use Wistia, Soapbox.
Dan Tyre:
They’re all free. You just load it in your browser and now you see me. You see my glass, you see my swanky urban background. And I’m going to put your website on my background. I’m going to be a little hole on the side. And I’m going to say, “Will, I came to your website. I was doing some research on business owners in Leads and I saw that it looks like you’re trying to generate more business. I had some tips about ways that could help you get your website working a little harder without you having to. Just put 15 minutes on my Calendar and we’ll engage. Then we’ll see how I can help.”
Dan Tyre:
Now you go to that video, you watch the video, usually about 75% of the time. Some people say, “No one’s clicking on my video.” It’s usually because you don’t have the prospect’s website there. That plays to the lizard brain. Then you’re focused on it’s only a minute. No one wants to hear about anything for more than a minute. You can’t drone on for something. It’s like, get to the point, it’s 2021. And the ask is just get on my Calendar. When the prospect books, amazing things happen.
Dan Tyre:
Do you like when prospects’ books on your website?
Will Barron:
Dan, we are just completely inbound. We don’t have any booking or anything.
Dan Tyre:
Okay, so I’m going to assume on the app, when people drop their content [crosstalk 00:28:22]
Will Barron:
I do literally almost all of our deals, mate, just over email. Most of our deals happen over email.
Dan Tyre:
I know, it’s amazing. It’s amazing because now you know I’m coming. Now you can research me. You’re like, “Tyre, you’re in Arizona. Isn’t it 6:00 in the morning?” I’ll say, “Yes, it is, very good.” Now we’re establishing that commonality. Now we’re leapfrogging, what you said is the most confusing and the hardest part of that connection. Because first of all, you’re in control. Second of all, you set the appointment. Third of all, you’re going to show up more often. Fourth of all, I’ve given you the ability to have that conversation.
Dan Tyre:
All right. So if you don’t answer my second one with the video, I-
Will Barron:
One second, Dan. One second. Just for the audience. Sorry to interrupt you there. I will document all of this out. I’ll put it into a big flow diagram and we’ll host over at salesman.org/Dan. So because there’ll be people now who are on a treadmill trying to listen to this going, “Free.” They’ve got an arm full of pen as they’re trying to scribble and they’re running. They’re up to their chest at this point, I’ve got a hairy chest, Dan. I can’t write on this, mate.
Dan Tyre:
Okay, that’s a little overshare.
Will Barron:
So I’ll document everything. I’ll document everything.
Dan Tyre:
I got it, I got it, but that’s [crosstalk 00:29:23]
Will Barron:
Salesman.org/Dan. Go on, mate, carry on.
Dan Tyre:
Say it again. Salesman.org/Dan. Okay, we knew this was going to be good because you and I have complimentary, you’re the big brain and I’m the energy. And this is the hardest part. I got lots of stuff to talk about the classic sales process, but I want to help and I’ve trained this for many years at HubSpot. I train our partner programme. I have a lady by the name of Amber. She was so scared. And in 2021, the prospecting process, everybody’s sitting at home, you’re at your kitchen. There’s a lot of negativity going on.
Dan Tyre:
Sometimes you talk to Mr. Grumpy. You don’t talk to Mr. Grumpy because you’re all inbound. But sometimes you’re going to hit somebody who’s going to be like, “Why are you calling me?” And that’s when you use your skills, address resistance. Got lots of ways to address that. This lady Amber, she got so amped up when she called people, she’d only call people on a treadmill. And so she’d be, “Will, this is Amber. Will, I’m on a treadmill.”
Will Barron:
Stop it. [crosstalk 00:30:28] That is on the verge of sexual as you’re doing that, Dan.
Dan Tyre:
Guys can’t do it, women … And then people would say, “Why are you want to a treadmill?” She goes, “I get a little nervous when I call people, so it alleviates my nervous when I …” And people would just start laughing, be like, “All right, what do you want?” And she’d be like, “I’m calling pharmaceutical companies in London who have a stage two or stage three product that they’re trying to manage through their website and need a little help. Does that sound like you?” And they’re like, “Oh my goodness, who are you, Amber on the treadmill?” And it’s just a very nice and human way of engaging.
“Statistically about 25% of the people, if you include a video in the second email, they are then going to respond.” – Dan Tyre · [31:08]
Dan Tyre:
All right, so if they don’t answer your first two, which statistically about 25% of the people, if you include a video in the second one are then going to respond. You wait three days, because it usually goes over a weekend, and then you call a third time. And that third time you’re going to reference something that you saw on Twitter, something, you listened to the podcast. It takes 10 seconds, people. If you call me and said, “Dan, I see you at HubSpot.” That’s not good enough. If you say, “Dan, how did you get on the salesmen.org podcast?” I’m your friend forever. I can’t control it. Now I’m like, “Okay, you did your research. You earned your 10 minutes. How can I be of service?”
Dan Tyre:
I leave the third, I say third ping in the subject, it’s another [inaudible 00:31:47]. You know I’ve done my research. You know I want to talk to you. I’ve been professionally persistent. And then I wait two more days. This is the money call because you’ll pick up usually on the fourth call because you’ve seen 602-432-7451 four times. You’ve seen the email three times. You’ve got four voicemails.
Dan Tyre:
So my voicemail there is like, “Will, this is my fourth voicemail. I’m pretty sure that you understand how to get ahold of me. You got four emails from me as well, two videos. Sounds like you’re busy. Should I stay or should I go? If you want to know a little bit more about how I can help business owners in Leads grow their business over the next 18 months, just get on my Calendar. If it’s not a good timing, just save this email. Just let me know. If you ever decide to grow better, just come back, get on my Calendar and I’m happy to help. My name is Dan from HubSpot. Thank you very much.”
Dan Tyre:
And for me, that connects at between, I don’t know, 78% and 85%. Which people say, “That’s not fair.” You’re like, “I’m an e-celebrity.” And you’re an executive at HubSpot. I’m like, “Okay, granted.” But if you follow those rules, you should connect between 25% and 40%. People who have never called before, if they use those techniques, especially leaning into video, you’ll greatly accelerate the hardest part of the sales process. And it’s like anything else, it’s hard when you start because it’s emotional and it leverages.
Dan Tyre:
People say, “They don’t want to talk with me.” Which is not true. Because do you want somebody to call you and help you, Will?
“Until you’ve spoken with an individual, they have no idea who you are. They’re not making judgements about you anyway. So, you’re making these emotions on your side.” – Will Barron · [33:27]
Will Barron:
I do. And just to double-down on this point, until you’ve spoken with the individual, they have no idea who you are. They’re not making judgements about you anyway. They just don’t give a shit. They don’t. They’re just oblivious. You’re making these emotions on your side.
Dan Tyre:
100%. But what I just taught you is to make it all about you, and I want it to be all about you because I have to be, it’s the empowered buyer. I’m not talking to everybody. I’m talking to business owners in Leads that have a world-class podcast and want to double their listening audience in the next 12 months. And if you are nuanced enough, smart enough to do that, then you’re going to win. Because I’m speaking directly to you. You’re a segment of one, you’re going to be like, “Oh my goodness, I got to call this guy back.” You won’t call me back. You’ll email me or you just get on my Calendar, anywhere from 75% to 82% of the time.
Dan Tyre:
And it’s not just me. I just haven’t had done it for a while. Have taught it to the folks at HubSpot, have taught it to partners at HubSpot, and now I’m bringing it to the world. The reason I got so excited is like, “Ooh.” I’ve travelled all through the UK. I’ve spoken in London dozens of times, Manchester, Chester, and UK audiences are a little bit different. UK humour is a little bit different, a little bit ironic, a little bit self-depreciating. I got to Google British humour, a little drier, yeah. Yeah. But it still plays. Unless you’re an introvert, then my big energy is hugely annoying. Then I’m just going to back it down a little bit.
Why ‘No’ Often Times Means Not Now · [35:00]
Dan Tyre:
But with these techniques, we know that you’re going to engage. You just have to do the work. And what we found is if you use these techniques, if people say no, they don’t really mean no, they mean not now. Because virtually everybody in the UK wants to grow. And it’s not so much like that in Italy. I don’t know if you have a big Italy following. But sometimes when I talk to people in Italy, I’m like, “Do you want to grow?” They’re like, “Not really.” That’s the only place in the world that I found that they’re not, like it’s not a number one thing.
Dan Tyre:
But in the UK, they’re like, “Yeah, I want to grow.” I’m like, “All right. What’s your strategy?” And they’re like, “Well, this is what we’re going to do.” I’m like, “Okay, can you hit your goals? Keep doing what you’re doing.” And they’re like, “Maybe I’m not quite sure.” I’m like, “All right, let’s just get on the Calendar for 15 minutes. Let’s see how I might be able to help.”
“The new way of selling is helping, not pushing.” – Dan Tyre · [36:05]
Dan Tyre:
And with that ideal customer profile, with that outreach four times over 12 days, with including video, with being of service, with ensuring that if somebody isn’t ready to go, you’re like, “Okay, it’s perfectly okay. At the time in which you decide you need to meet my services, just remember the guy without a lot of hair with the black glasses who sent you the video and then just ping me and I’m happy to pick it up when you’re ready to go.” And that is part of the flywheel. The new way of selling is helping, not pushing, to everybody’s benefit.
Will Barron:
I’ve got one thing that I want to ask you about and we’ll wrap up here, because I’m conscious of time because we could … I want to know what the next call looks like. I want to learn more about the flywheel.
Dan Tyre:
Of course you do.
Will Barron:
We’ll have you back on, Dan, to dive into all this in the future. But one thing, and I think this is really important, and I’ve got zero budget in our company in the grand scheme of things. But salespeople reach out to me and I connect with salespeople typically, in your words, when they’ve earned the conversation or they’ve earned the call. That first email, I just delete. I just don’t care. I’m probably not going to read it, I’m busy. The second, third-
Dan Tyre:
Yeah. Of course you’re going to. Of course. You’re a damn fine human being, Will, and you’re just like every other business owner. How many emails do you get a day?
Will Barron:
To the actual account, past the filter, not many. But the pre-filtered account, 100 odd emails a day. But when people work hard, I feel you like, ah, come on. We work with salespeople, train salespeople. Salespeople in the audience, I’ll give them a shot. I’ll get on the phone with them. I’ll just give them something.
Why You Need to Purposefully Try to Earn the Right to Call a Prospect · [37:08]
Will Barron:
How important is it, Dan, to have that mindset of earning the conversation? As opposed to, I feel like a lot of salespeople make a few calls, try and use some weird manipulative tactics, do some old school selling. It doesn’t work on the first or second, so they just give up. They almost feel entitled. Whereas the opposite end of the spectrum, the salespeople who purposefully try to earn a call, in my experience do way, way, way better. How important is that mindset shift to make that you’re earning this?
Dan Tyre:
Of course. You’re the empowered. Yeah, 100%. It’s all of it. That’s the leadership principle, The Inbound Organisation, the book that I wrote. And I also wrote the forward to a book called Inbound Selling by Brian Signorelli. My buddy Mark Roberge, she’s the first vice president of sales at HubSpot, and now the entrepreneur-in-residence at Harvard Business School. And I wrote the forward and we talked about how it’s completely different.
Dan Tyre:
What you want is somebody to help you and if I can convince you in four emails, in four phone calls that I can help you, it plays right to your heart. So selling is helping. And you don’t sell technology, that’s the big thing that HubSpot figured out in 2007. All we want to do is help you. We don’t even care if you buy stuff or not. All I want to do is help you. Why? Because if I help you, you’re going to have the exact opposite effect that that Mini car dealership had. Tell that story, take 30 seconds and tell that story about that-
Will Barron:
The audience have heard the story many times, but I’ll give another analogy. You walk into a shop in the UK, be it some time of … Say you’re buying a TV. You walk to a shop, there’s someone at the door. I used to be super spotty. A spotty teenager and they go, “Hey, can I help?” And you go, “Nope.” You don’t even think about it. It just comes from your subconscious brain, your reptilian brain. Nope. And the reality is they might be able to help you. They could save 10 minutes, 20 minutes of you faffing around, but you’ve just totally got rid of them. And that’s what we’re trying to avoid if I’m on the right tracks here.
Dan Tyre:
Yeah. Exactly. I’m going to give you the exact opposite.
Will Barron:
We’re trying to not be that person that gives that instinctive response of salesperson.
Dan Tyre:
Will, I’m going to say, “No, no, no. Will, I know you, number one, I only deal with business owners in Leads. Number two, I know what you want, which is growth, because I’ve worked in your segment for a while. Even if you’re brand new, you can figure out you want with three customer reviews and talking to your senior management. Number three, I’m at your service.”
Always be Closing is Dead; It’s Time for Always Be Helping · [39:25]
Dan Tyre:
I tell people that. I wrote this famous blog article that was called Always be Closing is Dead: How to Always be Helping. There’s another great blog article I wrote in HubSpot Blog called Warm Calling Tips that we have. They changed the name to Always be Closing is Dead, Always be Helping to a New Sales Mantra. But in 2014, I went back into the funnel to test certain criteria, and if I was even a little bit pushy, people would never call me back. They’d ghost me. They’d be like, “I’m not talking to that guy.”
Dan Tyre:
If I called them and said, “Will, I’m at your service.” They’re like, “Excuse me.” I’m like, “I want to help.” And they’re like, “Help with what?” I’m like, “It depends. What do you need help with? Usually it’s around growth, usually it’s around podcast owners in the UK who are trying to grow their listening audience. Does that sound like you?” And they’d be like, “Yes.” I’m like, “All right, tell me about that.” And then they just go off, sometimes for 15 minutes, then it’s completely different.
Dan Tyre:
And guess what? If you and I met in a pub, that’s exactly what would happen. I’d be making fun of your beard and the fact that you didn’t know who your university mascot was. It’s a tiger by the way, remember that. And that you, different things that we saw and things like that. As soon as you introduce a phone, then it gets all weird. But it doesn’t have to. It’s like that human kind of approach and what I just described is a great way of getting your humanity across in 20 seconds. And if you get Mr. Grumpy, you’re like, “Oh my goodness.”
Dan Tyre:
I get hung up on about 1.5% of the time. I just get the guy, he had to take his dog to the vet. His kid got kicked out of school for smoking weed, something like that. And he’s just in a bad mood and he hangs up on me. I send him a video. I’m like, “Oh, Will, I’m so sorry. I must have caught you a bad. I’m at your service. I ran this report about your ability to generate more leads inbound. I wanted to hand it to you. And if there’s ever anything I could do.”
Dan Tyre:
People will actually call me on that one and they’ll be like, “Who are you? Are you a Martian? Oh my goodness. I hung up on you and you sent me a video.” I’m like, “Yeah, that’s kind of the way we roll.”
Dan Tyre:
Everybody has those kind of things. And in a global pandemic or emerging for a global pandemic, that humanity is really unique and people naturally gravitate to it. And then you build up your flywheel, then more and more people like, “No. It’s the exact opposite of your car example.” Then people are like, “No, no, no, go talk to Tyre.” And that happens to me now eight times a day. After being at HubSpot for 14 years, people are like, “No, you got to talk to. This guy’s amazing. All he wants to do is help, help, help.” You get that reputation, it’s all downhill from there.
Sales Should Be Fun, If You’re Doing it Right · [42:10]
Will Barron:
Final question. This is massively loaded in that we all know what the answer is going to be from you. But I think this is be valuable for the audience. Should sales be, even if we’re sat at our kitchen table, listening to this, making calls, should we be suited, corporate, boring, stagnant? Or should sales, if done right, be fun?
Dan Tyre:
It’s unbelievably fun. The reason I would went into sales is number one, to have fun, number one. Number two, to learn stuff. Number three, to make money. I’ve changed my mantra in 2014 to, “Doing the most good for the universe.”
Dan Tyre:
The reason I’m still at HubSpot 14 years in is HubSpot makes this big impact. We teach this all the time. You go to HubSpot Academy, you can learn inbound sales. There’s a plug right there. It’s free. Two, three hours. It’s a class. Professor Kyle Jepson will teach you what I just talk about in regard to engagement and outbound calling. And we give that away for free. Why? Because if you’re doing it right, there’s more good process in the world. If you’re doing it wrong, people will never speak to you again. And it’s still in the transformation process.
Dan Tyre:
Brian Halligan, our CEO, says, “We’re still in the second inning.” Which for the UK means we’re still in the first 10 minutes of the football match.
Will Barron:
First half, yeah.
Dan Tyre:
And it goes on from there. But if you’re trying to do it the old way, if trying to sell technology services anyway, you’re not going to. If you got a big heart, if you focus, if you are trying to help people, oh my goodness. It’s a whole different ballgame. And then people are so nice, they’re like, “Tyre.” They send me chocolate towers and knitted sweaters and all that and they’re like, “Oh my goodness.” That’s unusual behaviour. They’re like, “You were so nice. You were thoughtful. You decided to help me. You weren’t pushy at all. When I ghosted you for six months, you were like, ‘Eh, whatever.'”
Dan Tyre:
Now you have to run a little bigger funnel. You have to be available. You have to make sure you’re providing the right information at the right time. But it’s the right philosophy, a management philosophy to help not sell.
Will Barron:
If a customer sent me or a prospect sent me a knitted sweatshirt, Dan, I don’t know how I’d feel about that. I might feel slightly uncomfortable.
Dan Tyre:
Yeah, I know. I got 25 of them. I know, I know. It’s amazing. First of all, it’s fun. Second of all, this is the new sales process called inbound selling or the flywheel. We have to do another session on that. This means that your customers are more important than your sales team. And I know that’s very controversial on the salesman.org, but it’s true. And there’s ways that salespeople can be insightful, thoughtful to make sure that works. And the bottom line is you want to lead with helping. And if you do that, it will resonate with a large group of folks.
Parting Thoughts · [45:10]
Will Barron:
For sure. We’ve covered the marketing flywheel before. I’ve had a conversation with your VP of marketing off the record about this, which is translating some content for the show. So I think we’re all on board with this. It’s not controversial at all, Dan. And with that, mate, let’s wrap up there. Tell us a little bit about the book and then where we can find more about you as well.
Dan Tyre:
So when I started as the first salesperson for HubSpot, I didn’t even do my bio. You’re a good interview, Will, you skipped right over that. And for me, as the first salesperson, first sales manager and first sales director at HubSpot, it was different with the outbound reach. And inbound marketing resonated very, very well. But as a salesperson, I love those inbound leads. Then it moved over to inbound marketing, inbound sales, or what we called inbound growth. Then I’m like, “No, no, no, wait a second.” What we just talked about, spend the last half hour talking about the leadership principles of helping not selling.
Dan Tyre:
And inbound organisation is all about treating people like human beings, which is important in the outbound process. Number two, helping not selling. Number three, looking at the data. Number four, solving for the customer. Number five, ensuring that you’re delivering the right information to the right time. And number six, being persistent in a way in which it doesn’t feel like you’re being overbearing. And those are foundations … I was speaking publicly about the inbound organisation and this guy, Todd Hockenberry, is like, “I talk about this all the time. Let’s write a book.” And I’m like, “Hmm, okay.” I thought about for eight seconds. And I don’t know, have you ever written a book, Will?
Will Barron:
No, have I heck.
Dan Tyre:
Okay. It’s hard. It takes hundreds of hours. I thought writing a book was going to be like talking. It’s nothing like talking, you got to be … But the good news is I have the best co-author in the history of books. And you can go to www.inboundorganization.com. You can download all this free stuff that we do because we believe in the inbound process. You can buy the book in bulk. You can see all of the great stuff. And it’s been super fun to help spread everything that I’ve learned at HubSpot all over the world, 120 countries, to more and more sales, marketing, service, support business leaders all over the world.
Will Barron:
And where can we find out more about you specifically, Dan? And maybe some of these blog posts?
Dan Tyre:
DanTyre.com. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Connect with me on LinkedIn. I’m an open book. Twitter @DanTyre, Instagram if you want to see pictures of my food, @DanTyre1. LinkedIn, easy to find me. DanTyre.com is my website. And I’m at people’s service. To the extent of my bandwidth, I’m always happy to help accelerate the sales process or support that people need. HubSpot offers great sales products. Our CRM is free. HubSpot has got the number one CRM for scaling businesses, which is super fun, and I’m happy to be as associated with the company for the last 14 years.
Will Barron:
Amazing stuff. Well, the audience have heard a pre-roll from HubSpot, an advert probably about 10 minutes go from HubSpot. I’m clearly bought into HubSpot as well, so hopefully that speaks volumes with yourself, Dan. And with that, we’ll link to everything we talked about in this episode, or I will visualise and make everything as visual as possible. We’ll maybe put out some kind of download or something together that documents it all and we’ll host that over at salesman.org/Dan.
Will Barron:
And with, mate, I genuinely appreciate your energy that you bring. The insight of all this, I might have to go for a freaking lie down afterwards to recover from the bombardment.
Dan Tyre:
Yeah, that’s what my wife said. I’ve been sheltered at home for 14 months with my beautiful wife. She’s like, “Okay.”
Will Barron:
The poor woman. The poor woman.
Dan Tyre:
“You move to a tent in the backyard.” She goes, “All you do is yell at your computer for 12 hours a day.” Which is pretty much true.
Will Barron:
Well, look, this genuinely comes across, it comes across as genuine. So I appreciate that, mate. And with that, I want to thank you again for joining us on The Salesman Podcast.
Dan Tyre:
Thank you very much.
