Kayvon is known by the media as the “one call closer.”
In today’s episode of The Salesman Podcast, he explains the step-by-step process needed to sell high-ticket products and services.
Featured on this episode:
Resources:
- Kayvon.com
- Kayvon on Linkedin
- Kayvon Youtube
- Book – The Ultimate Sales Machine: Turbocharge Your Business with Relentless Focus on 12 Key Strategies
Transcript
Will Barron:
Come and go pumps today’s episode of The Salesman Podcast.
Kayvon:
If the closer doesn’t feel comfortable selling, say $10,000 or the salesperson, they’ll never close, or be able to put out a $10,000 product.
Will Barron:
Hello Sales Nation and Will Barron, host of The Salesman Podcast, the world’s most listened to B2B sales show. If you haven’t already, make sure to click subscribe and let’s meet today’s guest.
Kayvon:
Hey, it’s Kayvon here. The media knows me as a one-call closer as well as they know me as a high ticket closer. Essentially what I do is I help coaches, consultants, service providers, as well as teams, close high ticket offers over the phone within 45 minutes. If you want to learn more about that, you can easily find me at kayvon.com. That’s K-A-Y-V-O-N.com.
Will Barron:
On this episode, the legend is Kayvon. We’re diving into a difference between selling some nonsense, random commodity and selling a high value, a high ticket item. Why you should be selling high ticket items? Essentially the commission side of things. How you go about pre-framing, how you build Know, Like, Trust before you even get on the phone with a potential customer. All that, and a whole lot more. So let’s jump right in.
The Difference Between a High-Ticket Sale and Selling Ordinary Products or Services · [01:10]
Will Barron:
I’m going to talk about the difference between high ticket selling or selling high value products versus spamming people and selling random bullshit commodity products. Hopefully that’d be a differentiation throughout this episode. But with that, is there a price point? Is there a definition of what a high ticket product and then a high ticket kind of a sale is?
“The high ticket price is actually in the mind of the closer. If the closer doesn’t feel comfortable selling, say $10,000, they’ll never close or be able to put out a $10,000 product.” – Kayvon · [01:43]
Kayvon:
Yeah. I love that question because I get that all the time. If we were to dive right into it, to be honest with you, the high ticket price is actually in the mind of the closer. If the closer doesn’t feel comfortable selling, say $10,000 or the salesperson they’ll never close or be able to put out a $10,000 product. Now in our… in my industry where we live more online, the coaches or service providers kind of redo the informational, kind of product. High ticket in our space starts usually around $5,000. I would consider it a high ticket and it goes all the way up to 25,000. But we also… I’ve closed 50,000 actually. Well, you’re going to love this one. I’ve closed my biggest sale within… I think it was about a month ago now, $100,000 over the phone, one call.
Will Barron:
Congrats, that’s awesome.
Kayvon:
So to me, that’s high ticket, right? But usually coaches, consultants, it starts with that five and goes up to about $25,000.
Will Barron:
Okay. So I think the audience will be familiar with selling some kind of widget or some kind of monthly SAS software product or something along those lines where, maybe it adds up to that kind of revenue over time, or perhaps the monthly costs aren’t that high, so there’s a low barrier to entry.
Comparing the Process of Selling a High-ticket Sale and Selling a SaaS Product or Service · [03:07]
Will Barron:
In this episode, I want to dive into perceived value, experiential value, all these kinds of things that we’ll touch on that later on. But with that said, the process of selling a SAS software product for $50, $100 a month is seemingly well-defined, right. Need to find someone with a problem. You ring them up, hopefully they respond when you poke that problem and another bit of pain to them. Then they go, “Sorry, I’ll just buy it.” How is that different to someone spending $5,000, $20,000, $100,000 in kind of one lump sum or wherever it’s spread out, whatever it is. How is the process different from selling a little commodity product like that to a higher ticket value deal?
Kayvon:
Well, it starts first, right? It starts with the marketing, then the process goes into the sales process, right? So when you’re selling a $5,000 or a $10,000 product, let’s say it’s a product, don’t even say it’s a service. By time, they get on the call with me, so I’m picking up the phone and I’m speaking with them. There was several things that are already happened.
Kayvon:
Number one, they’re “pre-framed” what we call that. So they already know who they’re trying to, or what they’re trying to buy. They already have an idea of the price, not exactly, but they have an idea that they’re going to make an investment. They Know, Trust and Like us already. Now, the key, some of the secrets, I think we did talk about this last episode. We’ll talk again.
“When you call someone, you’ve got all these cold callers, you look and sound like a salesperson. But when they call you, aka book an appointment with you and you pick up the phone and you just ask the question, “How can I help you?” You now turn into an expert.” – Kayvon · [04:29]
Kayvon:
It’s one of the biggest secrets is, when you call someone, a lot of these people call out, right? You got all these cold callers. You look, sound like a salesperson, but when they call you, aka book an appointment with you and you pick up the phone and you just ask the question, “How can I help you?” You now turn into an expert. All are automatically you position yourself as an expert versus a salesperson. Now, the key to all of this is, you got to be speaking with players, like people that want the product, or that know the product, or that have an at least an idea of it that are in the pain of what the product, or the service fixes, or whatever that solution is. There’s no point in me, pick it like “I will never get on the phone with anybody unless they’re pre-qualified i.e.”
Kayvon:
I think this is where you really want to get to. They’ve already say they’ve gone to an event, or they’ve watched a webinar, or they watched the seminar. They filled out an application. There’s been this internal dialogue going back and forth. So for me, I’ll tell you one of the secrets either. No webinar, right? No webinar, no emails, no seminar, none of this stuff, no Facebook ads, Google ads, nothing.
Kayvon:
Here’s what I did. We put out a live to my audience, just a simple live. It was maybe 30 minute live. All I said was, “Hey, in the next eight weeks, I’m looking to bring on 25, not 26.” I didn’t do this, any of this scarcity where you say it’s 25 and they come into the programme and all of a sudden there’s 100 people. No, not that bullshit. It was literally, I’m looking for 25 serious players.
Kayvon:
You’re only going to put in the comments, mentorship. Anything less, if they wrote anything less than mentorship, I wasn’t dealing with them because that means they weren’t listening and that they weren’t even listening to it on a simple little ask? Then they’re not going to listen through the mentorship programme, right? So I said, put in the comments, mentorship. If you’ve already worked with me, you already know who I am. You already know what I can do and you are looking to either learn high ticket selling out of the next level or train your team and/or one-on-one day beyond my team, put in mentorship and we’ll reach out.
Kayvon:
So what we did is we literally reached out to everyone that put them at the button personally, there was not some generic email or some, it was, “Hey, how are you? Let’s set up a call.”
Kayvon:
So we went back and forth on Facebook messenger at that point, right? Credit that dialogue. It’s a conversation. What that is essentially is the cold call, right? That’s literally the cold call, except now it’s done digitally created a conversation and then said, “Okay, why are you serious about this? If we like their answer, we didn’t just jump on the call with them. We made them fill out the application. Then they filled out the application, my team and I reviewed it. Then we booked a call with them. Well, guess what? Every single person I got on the call with, of the 25? I closed.
Will Barron:
How does this…
Kayvon:
One call.
Will Barron:
How does this work Kayvon? From, some conscious here of, I’ve got humbly at pretty decent size audience. So whenever I do anything, I like what you’re describing. I always get more people asking for coaching, consulting, whatever is…
Kayvon:
I would too. I want your coaching and consulting, man. You’re a weapon. I want it all. Where do I sign up?
Will Barron:
Well, I don’t know about that. But again, humbly, somehow I’ve acquired this big audience from asking seemingly silly questions and getting great answers from legends like yourself. So it’s one thing for me to do a Facebook live or whatever the mechanism is to get people to apply, to work with me.
How to Frame Yourself as a Market Specialist Instead of the Typical Salesperson · [08:38]
Will Barron:
Similarly, yourself, you’ve got a decent size audience. You’ve got a past history in all of this. People are going to be primed to want to reach out and work with you. How does this work for an individual who is perhaps in my background, which is selling medical devices. How would we set this up, perhaps go back and forth and have a bit of a brainstorm on this. If I was selling to surgeons, how would I get a surgeon to reach out and want to work with me?
Kayvon:
Listen, I never say nothing’s impossible or, you can’t do it, but you got to… I… This is what I love, this stuff. I love it. I just so excited, because you bring up such a good argument right now, right? A good reason why I believe from a surgeon perspective, it won’t work. It doesn’t work like that.
Will Barron:
Okay.
Kayvon:
But now I can tell you how to get surgeon because I have 20 years of experience in that too, right? But the reason why is, you got to ask yourself, who are you going to know first and foremost, “Who is your target audience, who you want your prospect to be, who your clientele is, right? So you’ve mentioned surgeons. How many surgeons do you know that are going on Facebook? Okay, how many surgeons are there in the world? Number one.
Kayvon:
Number two, if you’re looking at a small area, say you’re in a state in the United States or province in Canada, and that’s all your territory is, let’s just say, that’s all you can sell to. Well, how many surgeons are in that one little area? Of those, how many of them are scrolling on Facebook? Or let’s say, even Google, looking for a new product for their office or their practise? I would say not many.
Kayvon:
Now, again, I could be wrong. I’ve been wrong in the past. But to me, that model, to me would be a hard model because you got to understand these surgeons. They’re very educated, right? They’re not looking, they don’t feel or think they have a problem. So you got to show them, or you’ve got to create that relationship to show them why your medical device is better, or what it can do or how it can save them. I don’t believe you can do that at a mass marketing level, let’s just call that. Through the typical, let’s just say the traditional way that we do it, where it’s… sign up for an email campaign and get a webinar, or webinar leads to a call.
Will Barron:
I’m going to push you back on this.
Kayvon:
I wanted you to.
Will Barron:
I’m in favour of your strategy and cadence with this. If I… Sorry. So last company I worked for an organisation called Karl Storz, it’s one of the world’s leading endoscopy companies, regularly had new products, right? I feel maybe it’s a two hour process that we will go through in this episode, because it might be too niche for the audience. So what we’ll kind of go down the rabbit hole and come back out of it.
Tips on How to Make the Buyer Feel Special and Win Their Loyalty · [11:47]
Will Barron:
But I feel like if there’s a new product launch, we could frame all of this [inaudible 00:11:22] would you like to apply to be one of the first surgeons here in Yorkshire to use this product, fill in this form? I, as a product specialist, as opposed to a sales person or consultants or wherever it is, will come in, teach you, show you how to use it. That’s your foot in the door and the relationship built. It might not lead to a phone call that closes $2 million worth of business on the back of it. But I feel like this… I’m really interested in this pre-framing and then framing up and perceived value of things. I feel like there is, it may not be Facebook ads, it might be physically going in and see people, but some kind of application process for someone to spend time with you, immediately raises you above up all the other bullshit salespeople out there, right?
Kayvon:
100%. So I might’ve been misunderstand the conversation, not… Because now you’re talking about different sales processes to qualify them better versus I thought you were talking about, how do we get them on the phone and close them in one call on the phone? You’re saying, how can we right through the barriers of them not knowing who we are, get them, pre-frame, even pre-frame around what we’re doing, who we are, what we offer so that when we do make the call, or when we do go in the office, they go, “Oh, I know you.”
Kayvon:
Absolutely, you can do that 100%. What you just said, I love it. What you just said is you can do it differently. We’re only looking for a handful of surgeons who are out there, top level, understand technology, understand what it is to be forward thinking and not stale.
Kayvon:
You’re basically pulling out and that’s marketing, right? You’re going to be pulling out all their triggers, all their egos and make them go back to me. That’s me right here, right? Then you get them, you get their information, you send them information. You have, you can then target them on Facebook. Now, what I love about this incident is, if you got them and you’re going to target them on Facebook, you’re going to actually speak right to them.
Kayvon:
That’s a great thing about Facebook. It isn’t, “Hey, this is who we are.” It’s, “Hey, you just put your hand up to be one of the select few surgeons in the world, who’s going to get on this product and be in the forward thinking, world that we live in.” If you’re thinking about it, or if you already looked at our material and asking, where do I learn more? No problem. Put in the comment, “I want to learn more.” One of our trained specialists will be reaching out to you directly, make sure that you check your Facebook messenger in the next 24 hours. Because we will be reaching out. We want to be speaking to you. That’s you can literally send that message to these people. They’re sitting there going, “This guy, speaking to me, I’m all into it.” Right?
Will Barron:
Your face said, you potentially who gets so unlike that to is not responsive to email, who you wouldn’t typically and traditionally want to perhaps target on Facebook, because it’s not for business or, it’d be inappropriate to speak to one of your customers on Facebook. I feel like, if we even ignore Facebook and just talk about Facebook messengers as its own platform, it’s all right. I feel like if you can get someone’s information, if you can get them on the… You’ve got the opportunity to make them feel special, privileged, whatever it is. Then more receptive to, not again, not necessarily closing on one phone call, we’ll come back out surgery in a second, and go to a more generic example, perhaps.
The Dos and Don’ts of Having a Cold Outreach Strategy · [14:58]
Will Barron:
But get them more excited about going “Yeah, come in and see me.” Or here’s some dates are doing this, well, [inaudible 00:14:59] Kayvon is that, there’s a lot of the audience to a toll day in, day out, cold call, cold emails, spam, there’s SDRs that listen, sales development reps that all day just to send emails so much generic or they change one line to try and get a little bit of attention. First someone like a surgeon, it just wouldn’t work. It will never work, if you’re trying to sell a particularly high ticket product like me selling from 50 grand. So a couple of million on that front. Right?
Kayvon:
Never. No, I agree with you. Never. I mean, there’s the easy way of doing it. There’s the hard way of doing it. Right? Here’s the thing, I think we’re not even talking yet about the real, the deeper problem, right? Why are we hiding behind? Why are all these salespeople are so afraid to what you say cold call? You’d be surprised how many salespeople don’t even pick up the phone. They’re so afraid to pick up that 10,000 pound phone that they hide behind LinkedIn. They hide behind the emails and they wait and they hope that someone out of a 10,000 is going to put their hand up. That’s just what you just said in the high ticket space. Especially if we said medical devices, that’s not the case. You need to narrow down who it is exactly.
“Be persistent and consistent, you do those, you’re going to be successful.” – Kayvon · [16:39]
Kayvon:
Like I’m talking by the doctor, by the surgeon, who you want to work with, find out everything about them, where they are, what their likes are, who their secretary is, where their office is. You’re not just emailing them. You’re showing up. You’re calling. You are in their face and you don’t stop. When they say not interested, you don’t go, “Okay, maybe I’ll call them in a year.” No, you continue going and going and going. I guarantee you the ones that are persistent, two words, persistent and consistent, you do those, you’re going to be successful.
“Anybody that has a territory and you got to sell more of your product within a confined territory, I’m going to give you the secret sauce. The thing that changed my life, that allowed me to work one day a week. You’ve got to know your numbers and I’m not just talking about your product. You got to know every store, what they’re buying, what they’re worth and what the market share is.” – Kayvon · [17:20]
Kayvon:
I can give you an example quickly. When I was in pharmaceutical sales, I sold drugs to doctors and pharmacists. My first year in my territory, I had 250 offices. There’s no way that any salesperson can actually serve as 250 offices the right way, unless they want to work 24/7, which I don’t know about you. I sure as hell don’t want to do that. I want to work smart. I would not hard. So what I did was, and this is I’m going to give, if anybody’s in pharmaceuticals, anybody that has a territory and you got to sell more of your product within a confined territory, I’m going to give you the secret sauce. The thing that changed my life, that allowed me to work one day a week, you got to know your numbers and I’m not just talking about your product. You got to know every store, what they’re buying, what they’re worth and what the market share is.
Kayvon:
So out of the 250 stores I had, I found out that 50 stores were aware… Guess what? Where does this tell what rule is? This were 50 stores made up of what? 80% of my profits, right? The 80/20 rule. And all I did was service the 50. Anything else out of that? If I had time? If they came to me was bonus. I figured a way to make my numbers in those top 50.
Kayvon:
In the first year, did I go asking for a sale? No, no. I just brought value. Every day I came in, I started creating connections. I started creating relationship. I started knowing everybody in your office. People bring… I don’t know how does wherever in the world, but where I live, Canada, North America. The whole idea is brings them coffees and donuts, right, goes a long way. That’s just bullshit. Who eats donuts now, nowadays, nobody. Everyone likes a latte, different coffees and everything you go, we’ll bring a big bucket of just generic coffee. That’s not special. Again, all I did was instead of going to the coffee shop, I went to the grocery store. When I was going to see the pharmacist, who were you, who tend to be more women? I knew it was going to be six, seven women. Well, what did I bring? I brought fruit, vegetables, almonds, not fucking hard [inaudible 00:19:06] to coffee. You have no idea how far that went. Like no idea that it went so far.
“If you go on this for a short time, you’re going to get short-term results. You go on for a long term with a long-term version, you’re going to get massive results.” – Kayvon · [19:22]
Kayvon:
By the end of the year. Not only did I start making my numbers, I was a little bit ahead of it, but here’s where it switched, the second year. Because again, if you go on this for a short time, you’re going to get short-term results. You go on for a long term with a long-term version, you’re going to get massive results, right? So by year two, I then start asking for the business, “Hey, at the beginning of the year, I got my budget from my company.” They gave me, it was at that time, it was on what a $10 million budget. Now I get this, 10 million. I took the 10 million. I broke in the top 50, not the 250. Because I knew anyone outside of that was going to be bonus. So if I can make that 10 million in the 50? Oh man I’m golden, right?
Kayvon:
So that’s what I did. The first month, January. First, I’d go out and see all my 50 clients, “Hey, here’s what I need. Listen, I don’t want you to give me everything because that’s not fair. I want you to buy from other competitors. I don’t want to just all be just me in here. Why don’t you do this? All I need from you this year is this market share at this spend monthly. If you can just promise me this monthly, it allows you for more opportunity with other buddy, everyone else. Then when I come in here for the rest of the year, we don’t have to talk business. We can just talk whatever we want and make sure everything’s happy. Is that… does that sound fair to you?” They’re all, “Yeah, okay.” By month two, I made my numbers.
The Benefits of Building Relationships with People Within an Organisation as Opposed to Cold Calling or Cold Emailing · [20:32]
Will Barron:
Yep. I can imagine my younger self, Kayvon, going in flirting with a bunch of nurses or flirting with a bunch of pharmacists, it becomes a nice job than sales, doesn’t it. I’m half joking about that when I say that. I’m half joking and half being serious. When’s I’d been in my sales role for kind of like two and a half, three years I was going in and I was single a single time having a laugh with the nurses, going out with the surgeons for beers at kind of early lunch earlier than we should have been in and kind of going out for meals at night. I knew the business was going to win because of these ships are built as opposed to I was cold calling, trying to sell. Again, all weird and manipulative.
“My mentor always says, relationships beat algorithms, all day.” – Kayvon · [21:25]
Kayvon:
Yeah. So I’m part of my mentor. I always give credit where credit goes, so I’m not going to take this, but my mentor, he always says relationships beat algorithms, all day. Relationships beat algorithms. I believe that and I want to go back to what you said. You said the flirting, it’s not about… the flirting is what we… is the boat, right? Is it kind of what we put on there as a boat, but it’s not the flirting, it’s actually, it’s the listening, understanding them, knowing their pains, knowing how to communicate to different people. Because we know all we know the gemstones, we know the different personalities, each one of these different personalities or these gemstones, they communicate differently.
Kayvon:
So yeah. Am I flirting when I know that I’m speaking to an engineer mind and I know that they don’t want to talk about the future or how great things are going to be. They want to actually know facts and statistics and numbers, and I’m learning with them on statistics and numbers and connecting with them in a deeper way. That’s flirting. Sure. Call me a flirt. But really, to me it’s called relationship building.
Will Barron:
I’m literally talking about a [inaudible 00:22:23] way to your mouth. Just for me of going into that NHS and flirting with 50, 60 year old women that could have madding the endoscopy equipments and helping the surgeons out shamelessly. They’d been married 40 years, but still going in and having a good time, just having a bit of fun with them.
Will Barron:
That was a clear different, and people told me I’d wear business on the back of that. That was a clear differentiator for me, just being myself, being the kind of 26, 27 year old odd that I was who single at the time and doing all these crazy extreme sports and stuff on the weekend. They just enjoyed having me in the theatre because they didn’t want to have a sales rep in the theatre with them. There was stuck up in a suit, corporate drone who just didn’t add anything to it. So I’d go in, be myself and, I’m clearly not, I’m so extroverted, but I’m not like a crazy kind of crazy party animal or anything like that. But there’s people I know that were like done did very well in sales. So with all that said, to kind of wrap up the show for one more example, I want to pull out the medical devices.
Kayvon:
Oh come on man, we are just getting started, where are we going?
Will Barron:
Just to kind of pull out the medical devices and let’s go for some kind of software product or something along those lines. So perhaps we’re calling on CSO or CRO, someone who, again, it’s a bigger market than just surgeons here in Yorkshire, which is the people I was dealing with. So rather than 30 people, perhaps in the US, it’s 500 people, whatever it is. But it’s still small enough that we want to have a raised level of perceived value of dealing with them, we want to treat them on a one-to-one basis, as opposed to, again, spamming people with the phone or spamming people over the email. What could we do in that scenario to get their attention?
The Process of Becoming a Trusted Thought Leader in Your Space · [24:00]
Will Barron:
I’ll run through what you said before to get their attention, to be pre-framed as a somewhat of an expert in front of them to have a… so they have an idea of the price of working with us so that we can build that Know, Like, Trust and the pre-qualified. I don’t put you on the spot here. This is a kind of a process which might take years to refine, but what kind of process or cadence could be put in place to get all of that from these individuals?
Kayvon:
Well, if we just take the example from the medical to this one, because it’s saying sounded like, again, it’s a higher level product. It’s more, you’re talking more SAS kind of driven where it could turn into a multi-million dollar deal for a company. Again, it goes down to the relationships.
“Why go right to the boss when you can figure out who one of the employees are and get them to start talking about you.” – Kayvon · [25:13]
Kayvon:
So how do you create? So the question is how do we create that relationship from cores? Well, in my history, right? Everyone’s pounding people on LinkedIn. I don’t even… LinkedIn as an amazing tool because it’s a number’s game, right? The more people you message, maybe one’s going to put on. I just don’t believe in that. I believe in, again, narrowing down those top five, top 10 companies you want to work with. Learning everything about them. Oh, why go right to the boss when you can figure out who one of the employees are, get them to start talking about you. Right? Does it make sense?
Will Barron:
Make sense.
Kayvon:
Go to the employee, don’t go to the vice-president. Maybe go to the manager, maybe go to the sales reps, maybe go to the marketing department. Maybe this go even the finance department, find someone in the company that knows where, who you need to be speaking to. Instead of just picking up the phone, that’s cold, right, and trying to get them. Because they’re not… How many times do they get that call a day? So many. Can you get through that barrier? 100%, I got many ways you can do that. But again, that’s hard. Why make it hard for yourself when you can make it a little bit easier? So to me is, building the right relationships with the right people in that company. So you can start moving your way up, getting your name out there.
Kayvon:
Another one too, you see this whole time is the free offer, “Hey, I want you to test, can you test my product?” So I’ve done this right where I come in, “Listen, I don’t want to use this whole thing, the whole programme that your whole team. Because I’m not going to ask you to move everything over for me. What happens if you don’t like it, what happens if we don’t like each other? What a nightmare that’s going to be. That’s the last thing I want.
Kayvon:
But what I do want to do is I want to help you. We don’t know if we can help you, unless we can see the products the right fit. So why don’t we do this? Why don’t you give me two of your best sales reps, two of your best guys and two of your worst guys and why don’t we give them free access for two months to my product or to my service. And I’m going to personally, or my team and I will personally train those guys on the product and let’s just see how they do, let’s see the results.
Kayvon:
But most importantly, I want to see the effectiveness and the efficiency they have in the next two months. If they love it, you and I can sit down. If they don’t, no harm, no foul. Our least, we brought your two best guys and your two worst guys together and create a little bit more synergy in the group. You wouldn’t be open to that. Would you?
Will Barron:
This is giving me food for thought personally. The audience will know that we’re rebuilding the sales school, which has done it before we click record. It’s going to be sold to the audience and sales leadership as well. My thoughts was, if I could sell to a sales leader, it will trickle down to the company. But as you say… as you get the example Kayvon, I’ve got individuals listening to the show who hopefully they don’t think I’m a complete idiot, If they listen to the show regularly, who probably Know, Like and Trust me to a certain extent, who are more likely to try it than a sales leader. So if you could, if I could get some of the audience members to try it internally and even better get the sales leaders involved. I don’t know how you go about talking, I don’t know about how you get framing up the kind of best and worst individuals without making people feel good and bad.
Kayvon:
No, that was just one example, right? You can just do it like a small sample.
Will Barron:
I think you’re right. Without hurting people’s feelings or however it goes about it, wouldn’t be my responsibility to have that conversation. It’d be the sales manager, but if you could get the best and the worst, and you could show via data, via numbers of revenue that, even if the best don’t get much better, but you raise up the people, the B players, the C players, that’s probably a better way of framing up. You raise them closer to the A players. That’s tens of millions of new revenue for, a relatively cheap investment and so a product. So I love that idea.
How to Position Yourself as a Consultant Instead of a Sleazy Salesperson · [28:34]
Will Barron:
How would we, and we’ll wrap up with this, frame that pre-frame up in the mind of a potential sales leader, a buyer, whoever it is. How do we want to get… how do we use content perhaps, or an application or something along those lines to make it seem less salesy and more consultative. I feel like that’s…
Kayvon:
I love it. You’re talking about positioning. You’re not talking about… you’re talking about how do we come across by saying, there’s without saying, “Hey, we want to do this. So then we’re going to bring people in and they’re going to be amazing and we’re going to make a lot of money and we’re the best.” Oh, we’re, “Hey, we are a data research company, who’s created the next level software. We’re actually looking for the select few people who want to come through this programme. Not only test with us because a test is already been happening, but actually want to take this test and put it into the real world, 10, 20, 30 times their output or their productivity or their relationship, whatever that is.”
Kayvon:
But the challenge we’re having, see, we’re not asking… The challenge we’re having is finding the right people to come through this product. Because we’re not looking for everybody, we’re looking for the right person, the right company. This is an exclusive programme for exclusivity.
Kayvon:
So let me give you a quick one. Because I know we got a quote, I want to tell you. My team right now is selling high-end lead generation to law offices. So basically leads, right? Like cases, law this is. Now imagine I pick up the phone and say, “Hey, this is so-and-so from this office where we work with high-end elite cases. We’re looking to see if you want to take on more leads in your business in the next 30 days. You’re like click, click, click. Well, watch what happens when we change the message for this, “Hey, I don’t know if this is the right office or not, but we’re actually looking for the person in charge that can handle multiple cases each and every week. Is that who should I be speaking with?” “Oh, what you multiple cases?” “Yeah, we work with several cases each and every week, and we’re looking for the offices that can handle this type of volume.”
Kayvon:
Different, oh boom, they send us right through the decision-maker. Same thing, “Hey Mr. Decision-maker where I’m not sure if you’re the right office or not, but we’re looking for an office who can handle multiple cases each and every week. They do, they have the systems, the tools and the resources in place so that when we send you a case, you know exactly how to turn them into a paid client.” They’re now, “What do we do?” They’re now selling me why they should hire me, like why they should, why I should pick them. It’s all about just positioning, but you’ve got to do it where I’m going to. I’m watching the time, but you’ve got to do it from a place of conviction, certainty, clarity.
“Conviction, certainty, clarity. Those are my three Cs. If you don’t call them with conviction and they don’t have conviction in you, it’s never going to happen. If you’re not absolutely clear on what you’re trying to achieve or what they’re trying to achieve, it’s not going to happen. If you don’t have certainty that you have the best product, the best service, or you’re absolutely certain that your product, your service can help them. Not just help them, but help them with their problems, help them with their teams, help them with their output, their efficiency, or effectiveness, whatever it is, or time management, all of it. Then you’re never going to make a sale. You’re never going to make a close.” – Kayvon · [31:27]
Kayvon:
Those are my three Cs. If you don’t call them with conviction and they don’t have conviction in you, it’s never going to happen. If you’re not absolutely clear on what you’re trying to achieve or what they’re trying to achieve, it’s not going to happen. If you don’t have certainty that you have the best product, the best service, you’re absolutely certain that your product, your service can help them. Not just help them, but help them with their problems, help them with their teams, help them with their output, their efficiency, or effectiveness, whatever it is, or time management, all of it. Then you’re never going to make a sale. You’re never going to make a close.
The Books and Resources Kayvon Would Recommend on How to Position Yourself as Consultant and Become Better at Selling · [32:09]
Will Barron:
So we’ll come on to your training in a second. We’ll wrap up the show with that, Kayvon. But just on this, are there any books or resources, anything you can recommend on positioning, on… I guess some of this is copywriting as well. Is there anything that you’ve learned from which would be useful for the audience?
“I see a lot of people say, “I want to do what you do, Kayvon. I want to close high ticket offers over the phone. And I’m like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don’t ask me what I do. Ask me what I did. Go do what I did, then you can do what I do.” – Kayvon · [32:45]
Kayvon:
Yeah. So one I’m sure many people have already called talking about this, is one of the best sales books that teaches you, not just the sales, but also the marketing, it’s Chet Holmes, the ultimate sales machine, he does it. But that’s a kind of a higher level book. For beginner, it’s probably not where you want to start. Because you got to have some experience and understand what’s happening through the book. It’s a great resource. Other than that, anybody that’s looking to try to start selling, I see a lot of people, “I want to do what you do ,Kayvon”. I want to close high ticket offers over the phone. I want to close 20,000. And it’s like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don’t ask me what I do. Ask me what I did.
Kayvon:
Go do what I did, then you can do what I do. Does that make sense? So a lot of people had no sales experience. They’ve taken some course online. I told them that they have some degree in closing, which is not real. Then they think they can go to the world and start closing $20,000 off. No, pick up, go do a full call service. Go door, knock. Go do the hard knock of selling, learn on your face. Create, get the base, the foundation. Then in a year or two or three years, you can then stay at home and pick up the phone and close $20,000 over.
Kayvon’s Advise to His Younger Self on How to Become Better at Selling · [33:36]
Will Barron:
Got it. Powerful advice. Well, with that, Kayvon, I’ve got one final question, mate. I asked you a little while back. I’m going to ask you again. That is, if you could go back in time and speak to your younger self, what would be the one piece of advice you’d give him to help him become a better sales.
“Always be completely authentic and align who you are with what you can provide. Don’t try to be someone else because someone else did it that way, or try to do that because it worked for them. You have to be you. If you’re not comfortable and you don’t love you, you’re never going to be that master closer because people don’t buy products, people don’t buy services, people buy you.” – Kayvon · [33:46]
Kayvon:
Always be completely authentic and align who you are, and what you can provide. Don’t try to be someone else because someone else did it that way or try to do that, because it worked for them. You have to be you. If you’re not comfortable and you don’t love you, you’re never going to be that master closer because people don’t buy products, people don’t buy services, people buy you. They buy relationships, they buy your authenticity, they buy your heart, they buy your hard work, they buy your conviction. If you don’t have that within you, how could anybody buy that from you. In life, you don’t get what you want. You get what you close. You need to be closed 100% on yourself.
Parting Thoughts · [35:15]
Will Barron:
I think you all, I’ll stroke, you a slightly here Kayvon. You’re a good example of this, and it… we have plenty of guests that come on the show that say all the right things, but I don’t necessarily, I don’t not believe them, but I don’t think they could call me up and have a great conversation with me. I get on well with them over the Skype call, whatever it is. But I don’t feel like… Does it a bit of a spark there. Whereas with yourself… Clearly, if you’re introverted, if you’ve got less energy, that’s what you should lean into. But with yourself, I feel even just to this conversation, you believe in what you’re doing and you believe in what you’re putting across. That just translate even through a video conference, nevermind in person, I’m sure we’d have a right laugh. But with that Kayvon, I just want, it’s going to mention that because that, I think that is important. Tell us what you’re up to. I know you’ve got a new training coming out or is out, tells a little bit about that and know where we can find it mate.
Kayvon:
Yeah. Basically what I’ve done was I’ve taken all my 20 years of sales experience. I put them into videos over 90 videos, but not just videos of me telling what you need to do and how to do it. I actually have videos of me doing it. So I have, in my, this little programme, I have actually recorded calls of me closing five $10,000 offers. I also have me breaking down some of my students calls and showing where things are going wrong. Live, actually, things that are happening. This programme is a programme I wanted it to be more like programme in your pocket.
Kayvon:
So it’s not a programme we’re going to come in and you’re going to, go from A… from point A to point B, and there’s going to be a result. It’s more of a… you’re already in sales, you’re looking to do more sales and you’re going to come in and you’re going to look for your problem. So say it’s like, “Hey, trying to find an influence or trying to find work. You’re going to click on the category. There’s going to be all of these videos. Hey, I’m getting this objection. You go to the objection. There’s going to be all of these videos.” So it’s not something that… it’s a programme, that’s an ongoing programme.
Kayvon:
I want it to be kind of, I call it Kayvon in Your Pocket. But the programme is actually called that Kayvon’s Closing Secrets. You can get that at kayvon.com/closingsecrets. So if you go to www.kayvon.com/closingsecrets, you can get that programme. That allows you to get to know who I am. It allows for me to get to know who you are, and to see if we’re the right fit.
Kayvon:
If we are the right fit, then we can look at what it is to work together. Because at the end of the day, like I said on the phone and I’ve talked about this with you, I’m looking for the right people. I’m not looking for everybody because I’m not here to change everybody. I’m here to change the right person who is in line with the things that I want and the things that we need to be successful and to do bigger and greater things in this world. I’ll leave it with that kayvon.com.
Will Barron:
Good stuff. While link to that, everything else that we’ve talked about in the show in this episode over salesmountain.org. All right Kayvon, it’s a pleasure as always mates. I want to thank you again for joining us on the salesman podcast.
Kayvon:
It’s always my pleasure, my man.
