Jeffrey Gitomer is the best selling author of “The Little Red Book Of Selling” (which was my first ever sales book!) and is a complete legend in the sales training industry.
Jeffrey joins me on today’s episode of The Salesman Podcast to share the secrets, techniques and processes that the ultra elite use to set their mindset up for incredible success.
Featured on this episode:
Resources:
- Gitomer.com
- Book: Truthful Living: The First Writings of Napoleon Hill
- Jeffrey on LinkedIn
- Jeffrey’s excellent YouTube channel
- @Gitomer
- Book: The Little Red Book of Selling: 12.5 Principles of Sales Greatness
- Book: The ONE Thing: The Surprisingly Simple Truth Behind Extraordinary Results
Transcript
Will Barron:
Coming up on this episode of The Salesman Podcast.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
So you have to put a belief system into your soul that says, “I’m going to do this. I can do this. I’m capable of doing this. I believe in myself enough. I’m going to live it as though I were doing it.” And that’s going to come through much more self-confidently than somebody trying to boost their own, “Well, you know, I’ve spent three years in the Congo. I was bitten by nine snakes.” I don’t care about that.
Will Barron:
Hello Sales Nation. I’m Will Barron, host of The Salesman Podcast, the world’s most listened to B2B sales show. Where we help you, not just hit your sales targets, but really thrive in sales. If you haven’t already, make sure that you click subscribe. And with that, let’s meet today’s guest.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Hello everybody. My name is Jeffrey Gitomer. You may know me as the author of the Little Red Book of Selling.
How Much of Our Long-term Success Comes Down to Having the Right Attitude and the Right Mindset? · [01:13]
Will Barron:
On this episode. The legend that is Jeffrey Gitomer. We’re diving into the mindset of not just hitting your sales target, that’s achievable for most people, the mindset, the attributes, the traits that you need to have and develop, the values that you need to bring into your life to have huge, incredible success. Essentially, to smash any goal you could possibly imagine over the next 10, 20 years. Let’s jump right in. How much of our long-term success, so not necessarily closing a sale next week, but the five, 10 years, our career success, how much of this comes down to having the correct attitude and mindset to set us up for success?
“If you don’t think of yourself as capable, if you don’t think of yourself as a professional person who’s able to change or persuade the other people to do what you want them to do, then you’re not going to win long-term. You may win short-term by trying to hoodwink somebody, but long-term, not even in the cards.” – Jeffrey Gitomer · [01:43]
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Not much, I would say about 110%. Because if you don’t have the right frame of mind and I’m just going to put it in frame of mind, that’s so much easier for people to understand, if you don’t think of yourself as great, if you don’t think of yourself as capable, if you don’t think of yourself as a professional person who’s able to change or persuade the other people to do what they want them to do, then you’re not going to win long-term. You may win short-term by trying to hoodwink somebody, but long-term, not even in the cards.
The Truth About “Fake it Till You Make it” and Why You Need to Remove it From Your Vocabulary · [02:03]
Will Barron:
And how much of this, and I want to dive into to the specific elements of all this in a second, and [inaudible 00:02:06] Napoleon Hill’s thoughts on this, but how much of this comes down to, “Well, I feel like I’m great. I’m going to fake it until I make it. I’m going to have success in the end, so I can feel it now.” And how much of it comes down to truly believing that however you find the evidence to support it, “I am great at perhaps this one thing, even if I suck all this other stuff.”
“I tell people to eliminate the phrase, “Fake it until you make it,” and substitute the phrase, “Live it in advance.” So, you have to put a belief system into your soul that says, “I can do this. I’m capable of doing this. I believe in myself enough, I’m going to live it as though I were doing it.” And that’s going to come through much more self-confidently than somebody trying to boost their own, “Well, you know, I spent three years in the Congo. I was bitten by nine snakes.” I don’t care about that.” – Jeffrey Gitomer · [02:25]
Jeffrey Gitomer:
I tell people to eliminate the phrase, “Fake it until you make it,” and substitute the phrase, “Live it in advance.” So you have to put a belief system into your soul that says, “I can do this. I’m capable of doing this. I believe in myself enough, I’m going to live it as though I were doing it.” And that’s going to come through much more self-confidently than somebody trying to boost their own, “Well, you know, I spent three years in the Congo. I was bitten by nine snakes.” I don’t care about that. I care about-
Will Barron:
Where did that example come from, Jeffrey?
Jeffrey Gitomer:
I don’t know. But I will tell you that I’m more concerned with, as a professional salesperson, and the customer’s more concerned with, “What are you going to do for me? And how will that create some kind of a value that I can turn into money?” That’s what the customer is looking for, not a bunch of braggy bullshit.
Will Barron:
What does that look like, practically? Because I want to move on to how we can instil some this into us, in a second.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
That’s okay. What it looks like practically is number one, building your own positivity, your own mindset as it were, and then creating a series of value statements that the other person can link onto, feel good about, and want to buy from.
The Five-Point Rule to Sales Success · [03:47]
Will Barron:
Okay. So what is the difference between a jolly, positive person who walks into a room, who gives off this vibe of just, “I’m happy.” Versus someone-
Jeffrey Gitomer:
I’m happy, I’m enthusiastic. Right.
Will Barron:
So is that what we’re looking for? Or are we looking for a deeper level of all this, which is, “I’m positive because I know I’m going to bring you success.”
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Well, let’s talk about this book for just a moment. Let’s go towards the end of the book, in a chapter that Hill calls, the Five-Point Rule. And in this, Hill says, and this is a very important part of this book because it will give the reader an understanding of what he or she needs to do in order to capture the power inside this book, “Success may be had by those who are willing to pay the price. And most of those who crave a $10,000 a year position…” and keep in mind a hundred years ago, that would be equivalent about $250,000 today, or I think it’s £9, I’m not really sure how the conversion rate works, “…but especially if they are engaged in business, may realise that if they’re willing to pay the price. And the price is eternal vigilance in the development of, and get these five things, self-confidence, enthusiasm, working with a chief aim, performing more service than you are paid for, and concentration. With these qualities well developed, you will be sure to succeed. And let’s name these qualities, The Five-Point Rule.”
Jeffrey Gitomer:
What Hill is saying here is you have to combine them. You can’t just be enthusiastic and have no self-confidence. You can’t just be enthusiastic and not provide service. And you have to concentrate, which in today’s world is focus on who you are, what you’re doing, what your chief aim is, and how you intend to make it happen. And you prove yourself by providing more service than you’re paid for. That’s the only proof you’ve got.
Will Barron:
This is what I wanted to get into Jeffrey. And clearly I’ve wrote these down before the interview. So I want to go, not necessarily through each of them, but I want to see how they tie together. And you kind of alluded to it there, that we need all of them to have success. But in the context of sales here, we understand the role of confidence and that confidence transfers. If you’re nervous about talking about your product and you nervously talk about how it’s going to help someone, clearly, they’re going to think you’re full of bullshit and they’re not going to believe you. And we can go through each one of these in that manner. But the one that stuck out to me, and this is something that I sometimes struggle with. So I’ve run two businesses, there’s this business, and then there’s a science business. And it’s all about a media company about science. I call it Excited Science, I’ve talked about it on the show before.
How to Find and Develop Your Chief Aim · [06:58]
Will Barron:
That I can talk about all day long. I get super excited about the sales side of things. I’m passionate about helping sales people thrive in sales, not just hit their sales targets, but really have a great time when they’re doing it, have a purpose for it. For me, that was always financial independence, to have enough money coming in from investments that my bills are covered, and I feel secure and happy with my life. I feel, then you can go and try and knock it out the park with whatever else you’re doing. So that was always my chief aim of all of this, and continues to be. But how does your chief aim interact with your sales job? Does it have to be directly related to business and finances? Or can you have another aim in life that you are using your sales job, perhaps as a vehicle to get there with, is that appropriate as well?
Jeffrey Gitomer:
I don’t think so. I think that if you develop a chief aim, it has to be focused around what you’re doing 40, 50, 60, 80 hours a week. Otherwise, both of those aims will be mediocrely mediocrity, and you’re not going to get either one of them. You have to play ball in your own field, and you have to do it with all your might all the time. If you do that, you’ll be able to achieve that chief aim and then go to your next chief aim. You achieved financial independence so that you could do what you wanted to do more. Correct?
Will Barron:
Correct.
“Your phone dings more than it rings. Now, why do you need to know that somebody just talked about you on Facebook? Can’t you just wait until the end of the day or the end of the week to find that out? It’s just a waste of your time and it diverts your thought process.” – Jeffrey Gitomer · [08:25]
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Had you done both of them at the same time, you probably would… First of all, it would’ve taken longer. And second of all, you realise it when it happened to you, but you don’t realise that while you’re working your ass off, and the working your ass off is the part that’s the important part of the deal. You have to wake up in the morning and be gung-ho to do whatever you need to do that day to get to the next day. Gung-ho. And you can’t divert yourself. I just tweeted the other day that your phone, excuse me, your phone dings more than it rings. Now, why do I need to know, or why do you need to know, that somebody just talked about you on Facebook? Can’t you just wait until the end of the day or the end of the week to find that out? Or do you need to go, “Oh geez, thanks. Let me give you a couple of props here. Let me give you…” Whatever. It’s just a waste of your time and it diverts your thought process.
“Concentrate on you, what’s important to you, and what’s going to put you over the top. Focus on that. And in the process, provide more service than you’re paid for. If you can do that sincerely, with your heart, not with your head, you’re going to win. If you can’t do that, you’re going to divert yourself to mediocrity. It’s plain and simple.” – Jeffrey Gitomer · [09:16]
Jeffrey Gitomer:
When Hill says concentrate, what he says is get rid of diversions. You don’t need to watch television at night to figure out what the weather’s going to be. Where you live, it’s going to rain and it’s going to rain often. So forget about that. If you go on the M highway system, the roads are full all the time, both directions. So don’t bother with those things. Concentrate on you, what’s important to you, and what’s going to put you over the top. Focus in on that. And in the process or the process, provide more service than you’re paid for. If you can do that sincerely, with your heart, not with your head, you’re going to win. If you can’t do that, you’re going to divert yourself to mediocrity. It’s plain and simple.
Tips on How to Sell From the Heart Instead of the Brain · [09:43]
Will Barron:
What’s it like to provide more service with your heart than your head? I guess we can all understand the head analogy of, “I’m going to do this and I’m going to get this amount of money back and I’m going to buy this particular sports car.”
“You can’t measure what you’re giving, you just give it. And when you give it freely, the world pays you back 10 times. But if some guy owes you one because of what you did for them three months ago, they’ll never pay you back.” – Jeffrey Gitomer · [09:49]
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Right, you can’t measure what you’re giving, you just give it. And when you give it freely, then world pays you back times 10. But if some guy owes you one, because of what you did for them three months ago, they’ll ever pay you back.
Will Barron:
And-
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Don’t worry. I mean just [crosstalk 00:10:09].
Will Barron:
Surely it’s just taking up a load of your mind share and your energy when you’re trying to negate this as well. Right?
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Exactly. And you’re putting yourself in a losing position when you measure it. So providing more service means you’ve done so much, you can’t even remember what the hell you did. And all of a sudden someone will call, “Remember a couple years ago when you, yeah. Well, I just got this and I was wondering if you’d be interested in that.” That’s how this book was written. Literally. I published for the Napoleon Hill Foundation their weekly newsletter, pro bono for 15 years, never asked for a dime. In fact, that was the proposition that I made to them. I said, “Look, I’ll do this on one condition.” And they said, “What’s that?” “That you never pay me.” And it just blew their doors off that someone would go that mile.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
And sure enough, a decade later they called me up and said, “Hey, we found these writings. Would you be interested in annotating them and editing them?” I go, “Yeah, I would.” And so I made a deal with the Napoleon Hill franchiser, their foundation, because I was a giver. Not because I was a measurer and they owed me one, any that kind of crap, “Well, I’ve been doing this for a long time. You guys really owe me.” Like bullshit. They don’t owe me anything. I didn’t start it out that way, but sure enough, now my name is on the cover of a book with Napoleon Hill. What else could I ask for?
Will Barron:
How do we, Jeffrey-
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Look-
Will Barron:
Let me just pull it back for a second here.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
All right.
Will Barron:
Play devil’s advocate slightly. And I can paint a picture for you very clearly of me four years ago, when I started the podcast, The Salesman, all this kind of stuff. High paying medical device sales job, doing well, saved a bit of cash up. Then I moved in with one of my mates to keep my run rate down, so I could, that cash would last hopefully a bit longer, so I could get a business of some sort off the ground. I knew it was some kind of content business. For me to have the conversation now, knowing what I know and knowing that I put out all this free content and eventually it comes back. And most of the ad deals that we do, unfortunately or fortunately because I pride myself on selling them and remaining a practitioner of sales, as I record this content, most of them come from inbound leads now just because the audience is so big, so it makes selling them very easily.
Why You Need to Work Hard from the Get Go if You Want to Be Successful · [12:26]
Will Barron:
So right now I agree, everything you say makes total sense. But four years ago when I was cold calling individuals, because I had no kind of brand, a very small audience. I was doing what you were describing, of asking a tiny amount of money for more value than… And I’m giving more value than what the cash equivalent was worth of that. And I was just trying to kind of get things off the ground and get going. It’s a very difficult conversation to be had there. Now if you scale this even further out, perhaps there’s someone listening, they’ve got kids, they’re tight, cash is tight or whatever it is.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Come on, everybody’s got kids. I got kids.
Will Barron:
Well, I don’t.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Don’t give me that bullshit.
Will Barron:
I don’t. So I can’t use that as an example, but you get what I’m saying?
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Yes.
Will Barron:
How does someone implement all of this? How do they make that mindset shift, when they’re tight, they’re struggling and [crosstalk 00:13:11]?
Jeffrey Gitomer:
You just answered it. You just answered it, when you started, you worked your ass off, and somehow it bore fruit. And as a result of working your ass off, you now have a, I was going to say a bigger ass, but you now have a circumstance where you have what you wanted. You had the goal in mind, wherever you wrote it or did it, the goal was to be financially independent and to have calls coming in to give you money. Well, you don’t get there overnight. You get there 20 hours a day. Did you work a nine-to-five job? Did you? Or did you, were you-
Will Barron:
When I started the podcast I-
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Working 20 hours a day?
Will Barron:
Yeah. I burnt the bridges and went full into this.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Exactly, because you had the balls to do it. And the higher density of brass your balls are, the more likely it is that you’ll succeed at it.
Why You Need to Have Faith in Yourself and Believe that Things will Work Out · [14:10]
Will Barron:
So is it reasonable to surmise then that some of this comes down to having faith in yourself, that things will work out, and just getting your head down?
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Beyond that. Having faith in yourself is a prerequisite. Having desire to do it, that’s another thing. Having the knowledge to do it, that’s another thing. Having other people helping you, that’s another thing. So it’s not one thing, it’s a combination of things. And one of the reasons the Truthful Living works is because Hill goes through every single thing you need to do completely, and challenges you to get out and do it. And what I’ve done in the book, I introduced each chapter because they’re a hundred years old. And then at the end of the chapter, I said, “Here’s how you can put this into your life.” I’m making it as simple as humanly possible, and people are responding to it already.
The Key to Long-term Success is Having that Burning Desire for Success · [15:11]
Will Barron:
So I know Hill talks about a need for a burning desire. What can we do, Jeffrey, if our desire is wavering. If our desire is embers, it needs a good old poking and a good stoking? What can we do to raise that, to really set that house on fire with our level of desire?
“The people that don’t have desire or the people that don’t have their internal fire lit are people that don’t love what they do. And you can’t fake that.” – Jeffrey Gitomer · [15:34]
Jeffrey Gitomer:
The people that don’t desire, or the people that don’t have their internal fire lit, are people that don’t love what they do. And you can’t fake that. How do you feel about your podcast? Do you love it?
Will Barron:
Honestly, I enjoy having conversations with people like you. I’ve read most of your books over the years. I do love the science podcast that I do. I literally come out of recording conversations with scientists and all the random people that we have on that show literally like bonkers with excitement and joy. Not to say that I’m not having a great time with you Jeffrey, but that’s a hobby and this is what pays the bills. So that’s the difference between those two, in my mind.
“If you’re looking to succeed beyond your wildest dreams and you don’t love what you do, stop doing it because it’s not going to get you anywhere. You’ll rise to a level of mediocrity, stay there, and be pissed off about it, and wonder why it’s not working.” – Jeffrey Gitomer · [16:17]
Jeffrey Gitomer:
But the bottom line is if you’re looking to succeed beyond your wildest dreams and you don’t love what you do, stop doing it because it’s not going to get you anywhere. You’ll rise to a level of mediocrity and stay there, and be pissed off about it, and wonder why it’s not working, and, “Oh my gosh, if it wasn’t for bad luck, I’d have no luck.” No, no, you’re fucked up because you don’t love what you do. I think it’s pretty simple.
The Percentage of Salespeople That Love Selling In General and the Ones That Love Selling a Specific Product · [16:48]
Will Barron:
In that case, let me ask you this, because this is something I come across all the time with people emailing me, I get hundreds of emails a day at this point, what percentage of sales people do you think, I guess love because there’s multiple elements to this, love selling, and what percentage of sales people do you think love selling the product that they’re specifically selling right now?
Jeffrey Gitomer:
I’m going to say at least half the sales people love selling, at least half. I’m also going to say under 25% love what they do. And that’s just my own personal number. I think all poll numbers are bullshit. If you see 99% of this or 87% of this, I don’t buy it. So I’m looking at it, this is my gut feeling. And it’s having spoken to hundreds of thousands of sales people, influenced them.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Many, many times they do what they do because the living is good, they have a family obligation, they have a mortgage payment or some kind of car payment or whatever it is, and they have to make this money. They would rather do something else, but they have to make this money. And Hill and you are both going to say, “No, no, dude. Find what you love to do and jump in. And do it in a way where you can monetize it and have a game plan.” That’s what Hill says. Don’t just have a chief aim, have a game plan to go along with it, and then have the balls enough to be able to cut the cord.
Will Barron:
I know that’s what I had to do. For context, in my medical device sales role, I loved selling medical devices. It was endoscopy and imaging systems. I’m a huge nerd. And as anyone knows from the set and all the stuff that we do with the video production side of things, I love all the video elements of it. But my, without calling anyone out, one or two of my sales managers that I had tried their best to make my life a living hell.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Come on, call them out, the bastards. Come on, call them out.
Will Barron:
I know a couple of them listen to the show.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Oh, my God.
Will Barron:
They were nice people, they were just shit at sales management.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Got it.
Will Barron:
So it’s not for me to kind of drag their egos down or anything like that. But I always found that I was in that conflict there. And to resolve the conflict, I looked out there, there wasn’t that much content for salespeople from a salesperson, and so that’s where the kind of the genesis of the show came from. But with that in mind, Jeffrey-
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Here’s the deal. Hang on a second.
Will Barron:
Sure.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
You genuinely wanted to help people.
Will Barron:
I wanted to-
Jeffrey Gitomer:
You genuinely felt that you could impact them and their revenue.
Will Barron:
I knew I could.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Otherwise, you wouldn’t have-
Will Barron:
Yeah.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Otherwise, you wouldn’t have done it.
Will Barron:
But there’s also survivor bias to this of, if the show would’ve been a complete just flop, no one listened, no one tuned in, it didn’t exist four-and-a-half years later, I wouldn’t be here having this conversation with you, preaching that, and from my aspect, I have to burn the bridges, sink the ships and just go all in on the next thing. That’s the only way I can commit to it.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
But you did it. You did it, and it worked.
Will Barron:
Correct. But what I’m saying is-
Jeffrey Gitomer:
And that should inspire other people that they can do it as well. Here’s the deal.
Will Barron:
Sure.
“Don’t say, “If I can do it, you can do it.” Just say, “I did it. Therefore, it can be done.” That’s it.”- Jeffrey Gitomer · [19:57]
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Don’t say, “If I can do it, you can do it.” Just say, “I did it. Therefore, it can be done.” That’s it. You don’t have to go out and chastise somebody for not giving up their weekly income. Rather, you can say, “Look, use me as an example of what I did, and how I did it, and figure it out for yourself.”
Will Barron:
That’s fair enough.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Yeah. It’s totally fair enough.
Will Barron:
When you put it like that, it’s seamless. Right?
Jeffrey Gitomer:
It’s totally fair enough. My close in sales is fair enough. I’m going to make sure that I get everybody in the audience a book, I’m going to customise my talk, I’m going to make sure that everyone walks away feeling like this is the greatest guy that ever talked to us. Is that fair enough? Well yeah, it’s fair enough. Right? So all you got to do is send me some money. The only thing we’re questioning now is, how much? So I feel like I don’t want to manipulate the sale, I want to help the other person buy.
Will Barron:
So let’s pull this into, perhaps, we’ve covered a couple of the key traits here. Are there any traits that seem counterintuitive or is it all as seamless as we’ve discussed so far?
“You have to divest yourself of things that don’t make you money. If you’re on this quest, you have to put aside the television, you have to put aside some of the stupid things that you do that waste your time during the course of a day. You could probably have two or three more hours of productivity if you just cut your own crap.” – Jeffrey Gitomer · [21:17]
Jeffrey Gitomer:
It is not all seamless. There are some counterintuitive things. You have to divest yourself of things that don’t make you money. If you’re on this quest, you have to put aside the television, you have to put aside some of the stupid things that you do that waste your time during the course of a day. You could probably have two or three more hours of productivity, if you just cut your own crap. It doesn’t matter who got beat up in a parking lot. It doesn’t matter that the weather’s cold and rainy. It doesn’t matter that the roads are full from whatever traffic jam or whatever time of the day it is. What matters is how you earn a living, and what are you doing that’s helping other people in the process.
Why You Need to Start Taking Total Responsibility of All Aspects of Your Life · [22:00]
Will Barron:
Because a lot of that seems like it can be narrowed down to just taking, and there’s a couple of people who have got books on this at the moment, I interviewed Jocko Willink on this a few weeks ago, but it seems like just taking, I think he calls it, total responsibility. Is that what a lot of this comes down to? Because I know, as a millennial, I see a lot of my peers go, “Well, I’m tired. I’m going to treat myself to watching TV. I’ve worked hard in my job this week, so I’m going to treat myself to crappy food.” Or whatever on the weekend which slows you down and ruins your productivity there as well.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Listen, you can do those things. Just don’t be blaming others for your circumstance, “If it wasn’t for this, I would’ve this.” No, no, dude, you can have whatever you want. You just have to work harder or smarter or both. And put yourself in a winning position. You can measure it by yourself, you can measure it by others, but the bottom line is you’re measuring it by your financial freedom, which you’ve achieved by working your ass off. And I’m sure along the way, you might have had a fish and chip somewhere.
Will Barron:
There’s-
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Correct?
Will Barron:
There’s a beautiful fish and chips place just around the corner. Friday afternoon is a mean mission to not have fish and chips before I go to jujitsu. The only reason I don’t have it is because I’m committed to going to jujitsu, and I know I’ll throw it back up otherwise.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
I think that the fish and chips industry took a giant leap forward the day they went to newsprint rather than newspaper. Because I could read the funnies on my fish sometimes, and it was a little bit depressing.
Jeffrey’s Thoughts on The Perfect Work-Life Balance · [23:38]
Will Barron:
Right. Let me ask you this, and we’re touching on it here, but what should be, or should there be a work-life balance? And-
Jeffrey Gitomer:
No.
Will Barron:
Okay. So what-
Jeffrey Gitomer:
No.
Will Barron:
So what does that mean then for me, in a relationship but no kids, no responsibilities, no mortgage, nothing like that. For me to say, I’m going to spend next 10 years, I’m 32 in a couple of weeks, to get my head down. So at I’ve 42 achieved this, this, and this, is one thing. Right? How do we say there’s no work-life balance when we’ve got a partner, kids, responsibilities, the school run, all that kind of stuff? And I’m asking this for my future-
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Take them with you. Find a partner who loves what you do and is willing to work with you.
Will Barron:
I’m asking this for my future self, Jeffrey. Is this a narrative that we need to play out in our minds then of we’re on a journey, we’re the hero, we’re going to go and slay these dragons, and this is where we’re going to be at the end of it?
“If you’re already at financial security, you can partner with whomever you want. If you’re not at financial security, you have to partner with someone who’s willing to support your thought process. Who’s willing to back you intellectually and say, “Come on bud, you can do it.”” – Jeffrey Gitomer · [24:32]
Jeffrey Gitomer:
If you’re already at financial security, you can partner with whomever you want. If you’re not at financial security, you have to partner with someone who’s willing to support your thought process. Who’s willing to back you intellectually and say, “Come on bud, you can do it.” Encourage you. And Hill talks about that in what kind of people do you surround yourself with, and are they of the same ilk that you are. In order to be able to move forward, because you can’t do it by yourself. You look at your own success and I’ll guarantee you, there are people in the background that helped the hell out of you to get from where you are, or where you were, to where you are now.
The Most Effective Way to Stay Motivated Consistently · [25:15]
Will Barron:
So on the motivation piece then, over the long-term, I know Hill talks about sexual transmutation, talks about using music and then other things to motivate us. What’s the most effective way then to stay… And I want to dive into how do we stay focused in a second, so I think that’s probably the most important element to all of this. But how do we stay motivated? Because everyone talks about motivating this and motivating that. And everyone has some nonsense Instagram profile with quotes that might get you sprung up in the moment. But how do we stay motivated towards our long term goals over the long term?
“The key is to stop thinking ‘motivate’ and start thinking ‘inspire.’ Because if I inspire you to do whatever, you’re going to do it for a longer period of time than if I simply motivate you for the moment by saying, “Come on, bud, you can do it. “” – Jeffrey Gitomer · [25:45]
Jeffrey Gitomer:
So the key is to stop thinking motivate, and start thinking inspire. Because if I inspire you to do whatever, you’re going to do it for a longer period of time than if I simply motivate you for the moment by saying, “Come on, bud, you can do it. This is not that tough of a thing to do. You’re the greatest. I know you can make it happen.” Rather, I should give you pieces of information on a daily basis that will actually help you. Things you can think about, things you can become, things you can do. So it’s not a matter of motivation, it’s a matter of inspiration, so that anybody can take that inspiration and use it for themselves over an extended period of time. Think of it as your life’s mentor or the person that you aspire to be more like. Not to be, but to be more like. And so everybody has that specific person, you already know who it is. The question is how well can you get to know them without saying, “Can you be my mentor?” I mean, that’s just bullshit.
The One Person Who Inspires Jeffrey Gitomer · [26:50]
Will Barron:
Who are you inspired to be like, Jeffrey, other than, clearly, Napoleon Hill?
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Well, yeah. I don’t know that I’m inspired to be more like Napoleon Hill, because I’m not certain that his background was the same as mine is/was. I’m inspired to be a better person on a daily basis. I had a mentor for 35 years, a very wealthy guy, a family guy, whose wisdom, for example, if you’re not a half an hour early, you’re late, those kinds of things, and stories that he had about where he came from and how he did what he did. Those were inspirational things for me to talk about, doing the right thing, being a better person, making sure that you focus in on yourself, but also providing for your family. Here’s a guy who, in his wealth, paid for every everybody’s education, whether they wanted to be a college graduate or a lawyer or a doctor, he decided as a grandfather, he was going to pay for everybody. And he did.
“I think the less famous a person is, the more likely it is that they will get into your head and you’ll emulate them in what you do.” – Jeffrey Gitomer · [28:28]
Jeffrey Gitomer:
And he said, “Jeffrey, a lot of people tell you that you shouldn’t spoil your kids and you shouldn’t spoil your grandkids. And I tell those people to go fuck themselves, because I’m going to pretty much do what I want to do.” And people adored this guy, not for his money, rather for his wisdom and for his inspiration. And I’m friends with many of his grandkids and his kids, they still talk about what he did, and what he taught them, and how he did it. Unknown guy. It’s not like they’re following Anthony Robbins into the sunset. I think the less famous a person is, the more likely it is that they will get into your head and you’ll emulate them in what you do.
How to Uncover Your True Value in Life · [29:01]
Will Barron:
So we’ll come on to a focus in a second, but you’ve touched on something here, which I think is probably equally as important, but perhaps you can tell me your thoughts on this, might be harder to change or adapt to, and that is seemingly what you’re describing there in your mentor, Jeffrey, is he had great values, and obviously that’s subjective, and they’re values that you related to, I assume, and so that’s why you kind of bonded with him and could learn from him. How do we uncover what our true values are? And I’m sure we could do a whole episode on this on its own. And clearly they’re so in-depth, they’re ingrained into us, and if we can suss out what they are and we can align our life with them, we’re going to be happier, more productive and everything else, perhaps we’ll flow from there. So how do we know what they are?
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Go take a look at your greatest successes and your greatest failures or your setbacks. And I will promise you that you will come up with a list of things for each one that will define your values, or what they should have been, or what you could have done. And when you look at the great sales that you made, you go, “Okay, how did I do this?” And so I look at my stuff and I go, “Look, I made millions of dollars worth of sales by using creativity and follow through. Well, wow. I guess those are two things I better focus on. And I failed because I didn’t ask the right questions or I didn’t maintain a long-term relationship.” But there’s things that you do, you know what you did, and you know what you didn’t do, and you know why. And you have to be able to identify those in order to be able to build your package of what you need to do to get to next plateau. And that’s what Truthful Living does, it helps you identify your package.
Why Mentors are so Important · [30:24]
Will Barron:
Because I know, I think it was a Tony Robbins book, and I think some of his stuff’s a bit wishy-washy, but whatever the book was, I was reading it, and it soon brought real light to me. And that was that, it tied the values of both wanting to be secure and then wanting to be free as well. And those took me years to suss out and what it was, I got this burning desire to become financially free because I knew that if I had enough money coming in to support me, I could go and do ridiculous things, travel, podcast business, science podcast, all this kind of stuff. But it took me a long time to suss this out. And I think the answer to that would be a mentor, would have been seeking out someone who I could’ve just… You perhaps would’ve jump on a phone call and go, “Oh yeah. That’s what you needed to aim for you idiot. And you would’ve short-circuited the whole process.” So clearly mentors are important for all of this. So Jeffrey to-
Jeffrey Gitomer:
In the early years of my mentorship with this guy, I was in the textile screen printing business. And he wanted to put money into the business. And my partners were not the most ethical people in the world. I called this guy up and said, “Don’t invest.” He said, “What do you mean?” I said, “Don’t invest.” He said, “No, you can have my money.” And I said, “No, I’d rather have your friendship.” And that was the beginning of our relationship. But I sold my business and I started to travel around the country, and I’d make $5,000 a week or $10,000 a week for sharing my knowledge with other people. And I’d call him up and brag every time like, “Hey, Earl, I did this. Hey, Earl, I did that.” He said, “Well, Jeffrey, you make $5,000 here, and $10,000 there, you want to make $1,000,000?” I go, “Sure.” He said, “Stand still.” What could be more plain than that? And I stopped jumping around, I stood still. And I’m fine, because I did what he inspired me to do, not what he told me to do. And that’s the challenge.
In a World Full of Distractions, How Do We Stay Focused on Our Missions? · [32:25]
Will Barron:
So this might follow on, mentors might be part of the solution here, Jeffrey. But in a world where, as we’ve talked about phones are beeping, buzzing, texts. I can hear stuff going on in the background here in the office that I’m going to have to put my attention to at some point, when we wrap up and kind of close down the show here. In a world where we’re just constantly being bombarded, and we’re forever more going to get, it’s not going to go backwards, I don’t think, how do we know what to focus on? And I love the book, The One Thing, this really helped me kind of narrow down my focus business-wise. But how do we know what to focus on? And how do we know what is the 20% of things to focus on, or the highest leverage points which are going to give us the Pareto principle of 80% of the results?
“You wake up at 5:00 in the morning, what you do between 5:00 and 7:00 and what you do at night between 9:00 and 11:00, that’s going to determine what it is that you really want to do. If you’re not willing to get up early and you’re not willing to stay up late, then you ain’t got what it takes anyway.” – Jeffrey Gitomer · [33:17]
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Yeah. I’m not a big Pareto fan, but it’s pretty self-evident. But here’s the deal. You wake up at 5:00 in the morning, and what you do between 5:00 and 7:00 and what you do at night between 9:00 and 11:00, that’s going to determine what it is that you really want to do. And you can’t be diverted by the shit of the day, in order to be able to take away from your power to do what you actually want. So you put up with the shit of the day, in order to get to your real desire, your real desired outcome. And you put yourself into the position where you can. But if you’re not willing to get up early and you’re not willing to stay up late, then you ain’t got what it takes anyway.
Will Barron:
Well, let me ask you this, and we’ll wrap up with this, Jeffrey.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Sure.
Deep Down, Does Everyone Have What it Takes to Pursue the Success They Desire? · [34:00]
Will Barron:
Deep down, does everyone have what it takes when they find the correct thing to aim towards, or, and I maybe sway towards this, are some people just weak? And are some people… I feel like you should take responsibility for your own life and drag yourself out of whatever hole you’re in, but some people are given a real shitty hand in, and we won’t dive into the examples, but in multiple circumstances. Is everyone capable of doing incredible things and chasing, even if they never reach there, but having a life of chasing it and having fun and passion on the way, or are some people just destined to be losers?
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Everyone is capable, most will not take advantage of their own capability. I think that’s the easiest way to put it. Most people will-
Will Barron:
Let me make it more complex.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Most people will fall victim to 5:00 at night, it’s time for a pint.
Will Barron:
Yeah.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
And they’ll take the pint, rather than try to go for the money. They’ll spend the money, rather than invest their time.
Why Do Some People Find it Okay to Not Chase Success? · [35:03]
Will Barron:
And why is this? And from the perspective of 5,000 years ago, if that was your attitude and behaviour, you’d be dead in kind of a jungle or something somewhere. You’d be eaten, you wouldn’t survive. Why is it that, other than the obvious of like UK has an incredible healthcare system in the NHS, which is free for everyone, other than things like that, why is it that people have this mindset now, in 2018 as we record this, going into 2019, that it’s fine to just not chase success and to be able to-
Jeffrey Gitomer:
They have an expectation that if they earn enough they’re going to be okay. And I don’t want to castigate an entire group of people based on an age, but some people are just fucking stupid. And they’re never going to get it no matter what group they’re in.
Will Barron:
Sure.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
So you look at it from the perspective of, “I want what I want. You want what you want. You’re willing to work hard to get it.” Most people aren’t willing to work hard. Most people will take the diverted way.
Jeffrey’s Advise to His Younger Self on How to Become Better at Selling · [36:05]
Will Barron:
Interesting. Well, we’ll wrap it up with that, Jeffrey. And I’ve got one final question, Mate, that I ask everyone that comes on the show. And that is, if you could go back in time, sir, to speak to your younger self, what would be the one piece advice you’d give him to help him become better at selling?
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Stop wasting time on things that don’t matter in the long run. Devote more time to your family, devote more time to your friends, devote more time to reading and learning, and stop worrying about something stupid that in the end, won’t matter. If I want to know the news these days, I can find it out in five seconds. And then in 10 seconds, I’m done. So we’re afforded the luxury today of knowing everything you need to know in a minute. Then the question is, what do you do with the other 59? So that every hour is devoted to what you’re hoping to achieve for the long-term.
“You can’t tell me that you’re not willing to invest family time. It’s not a matter of balance. It’s a matter of time invested and time allocated.” – Jeffrey Gitomer · [37:37]
Jeffrey Gitomer:
I have a nine-year-old daughter. I have her every other week. There is not a day that goes by that I don’t walk her to school. We park away from the car line and we walk to the school, and same, I pick her up at the end and we walk back to the car, because I want to spend a couple of minutes talking to her about how the day was, and what did she do that was important. So you can’t tell me that you’re not willing to invest family time. It’s not a matter of balance. It’s a matter of time invested and time allocation. So even if it’s only 10 minutes a day, my daughter feels like queen because I’m asking her about her, or I’m challenging her about what she’s thinking about, or where they played, or what the movie she’s going to want to watch is. So I look at it as quality, not quantity.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
And when you’re talking about work-life balance, people equate that to, “Well, if I spent two hours doing this, I need to spend two hours doing that.” You don’t. You need to spend 99 hours making yourself successful. And the other 100th hour is making other people feel great about themselves and feel grateful for you.
Will Barron:
The best way. And I love that, Jeffrey, I appreciate the kind of personal anecdote there. And just to wrap things up, the best way that I’ve ever heard work-life balance being described is you’re swimming in the tropics and there’s two islands. There’s perhaps work and life, or it could be work and you winning that golf tournament, whatever it is it. When you go, “Well, I’m going to do an hour of this. Then I’m going to need to be home at 5:00. Then I’ll focus on this and I’ll go back and forth.” You end up just swimming between them, you’re just zigzagging, you’re not going anywhere. And again, for me, financial freedom was, and I’m not freaking balling, I’m still working my ass off here. I don’t want to kind of make things to be too… I’m not driving a Ferrari just yet kind of thing. But the getting to that stage, going all into that island, it been four years of just hammering it home right now and probably another-
Jeffrey Gitomer:
What’s wrong with that?
Will Barron:
No, no, nothing.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
What’s wrong with that?
Will Barron:
Nothing. I think it’s amazing.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Okay, so here’s the deal. Let’s-
Will Barron:
Let me just finish this anecdote, Jeffrey.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Oh, go ahead.
Will Barron:
Because once you get to one side, then you’ve got a straight, simple path to the other. And then again, you can spend time with your family, do whatever is your hobbies, and you can keep going back and forth. But if you don’t commit to one or the other, which I think sums up some of the conversation we’ve had so far here, you’re not getting anywhere. Are you?
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Correct. I can give you a more interesting way to look at it for the moment. Go to the island where it’s hard work. And at the end of your hard work, you can buy the other island.
Will Barron:
Yes.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
And build a bridge.
Will Barron:
Build a motorway across. Love it. Perfect. Yeah. That’s the perfect analogy. If you want to get great at tennis, well, crush it with business sales, whatever it is, and hire the best freaking tennis coach. Right?
Jeffrey Gitomer:
On the planet. Live with them. Travel the world with them.
Will Barron:
Yeah. Or they come live with you. Amazing.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Exactly. Whatever it takes to do, you do. But have a game plan. You can’t just do it willy-nilly. You have to have a set of personal instructions that you’re willing to follow and dedicate your time to, allocate your time to, and make it happen for yourself in a way that you’re pleased by it.
Parting Thoughts · [40:36]
Will Barron:
Mm. And I guess that’s the challenge. To be pleased along the journey is probably a conversation for another time. With that Jeffrey, tell us a little bit more about Truthful Living, where we can find it. And then where we can find out more about you as well, sir.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Dude, Truthful Living, you go to fucking amazon.com and you look up Truthful Living and you click the Buy Now button. And in two days, if you’re a Prime member, it shows up at your doorstep. That’s the incredibleness of Amazon. They are by far setting a standard for business that no one will be able to jump onto for a decade, at least. There’s people that kind of [inaudible 00:41:07], “Well, we’re going to do this.” They’re not. Amazon is in the business of cleaning other people’s clocks and they’re doing it. And they’re doing it with service, they’re doing it with delivery, they’re doing it with consistency.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
And they’re willing to go out there and put whatever it is that they’re selling on the line with ratings. You can rate anything. So before you buy anything, whether it’s a pair of socks or a book, you look to see how many stars they have. Everyone does it now. They have changed the game and they’ve done it in a way where, look at your example, what are you doing, what are your listeners doing that’s putting themselves at the head of their field by offering services that other people don’t offer. That’s just it. Be the service provider, be the amazing provider that will put a back order in a taxi cab, and make it happen. Just by the way, when I get into a taxi cab in London, I take the black cab, because I just want those guys. And when the guy says, “Where to, governor?” I’m just absolutely enthralled. “Where to, governor?” I’m like, “Cool.” Because he has the knowledge.
Will Barron:
Do you know where, Jeffrey, the best taxis in the world are?
Jeffrey Gitomer:
No.
Will Barron:
Dublin, Ireland.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Oh, wow.
Will Barron:
So I’ve got family over in Southern Ireland, so we go there quite regularly. Dublin, Ireland taxis, I don’t know whether it’s the exams they have to do, I don’t know whether it’s just the personality that they bring, I don’t know if because the roads are just mad, but most cities’ roads are mad, so I’m not sure about that, they are so knowledgeable, they are so friendly. They are Irish, they’re cheery. I don’t know if they’re half-pissed on Guinness as they’re driving around, whatever it is, whether they get an allowance from the Guinness factory around the corner, the best taxi drivers on the planet.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
Cool. They love what they do and you tip them bigger.
Will Barron:
For sure. For sure. With that, mate, I want to thank you for your time, your insights. Your Little Red Book of Selling was the second sales book that I ever read. It was gifted to me by a sales director, many years ago. So I appreciate that Jeffrey and the insights that you’ve been giving me over the, well, freaking decades now, which is sad to say. With that mate, I want to thank you for your time and joining us on the show.
Jeffrey Gitomer:
It’s a pleasure. It’s a total pleasure.
