Jermaine Edwards is a key account expert and joins me on this episode of The Salesman Podcast to share the psychology behind deepening relationships with your best customers. Both the frame of mind the salesperson needs to have to deepen relationships and the psychology in the mind of the buyer too.
Featured on this episode:
Resources:
- BOOK: Key Account Hack: 8 steps to creating massive and predictable growth from your key clients in 90 days
- JermaineEdwards.com
- LinkedIn: Jermaine Edwards
- @JsaEdwards
Transcript
Jermaine Edwards:
Right now there’s a conflict between the behaviour, the current cultural behave norms of buyers, and what we instinctually experience as human beings.
Will Barron:
Hello Sales Nation. I’m Will Barron, host of The Salesman Podcast, and welcome to today’s show. On today’s show we have the legend that is Jermaine Edwards. He’s been on the show before, and there’s a lot of value in the last episode. There’s a lot of value in this one as well. We’re diving into the psychology of building deep relationships with our customers and with our prospects as well. You can find out more about Jermaine on his website, over at jermaineedwards.com. He’s got a mailing list on there that there’s a lot of value that he gives out to everyone who signs up, so it’s well worth checking out. And with that all said, let’s jump into today’s show. Hey, Jermaine. And welcome back to The Salesman Podcast.
Jermaine Edwards:
Yeah. It’s a pleasure to be here. Definitely excited about it.
Will Barron:
I’m excited to have you back on, mate. Today we’re going to dive into the psychology of building deeper relationships with customers. There’s a whole bunch of angles to go at of all of this, and so before we get into what is perhaps, well, what I find the psychology, the why things work in the brain, the most exciting thing about most of sales, but before we get into that, I want to ask you a question about process here. People have different opinions on this.
Are Efficient Sales Funnels Built Around Positive Customer Relationships? · [01:23]
Will Barron:
So are you on the frame that the psychology, understanding of all this and putting it into practise should be part of almost the sales funnel of you do kind of your cold email or however you want to go about it, to use a stereotypical example, a cold email or a phone call and another phone call and perhaps an in person meeting, should you be designing into the funnel? Should you be designing into it ways to deepen that relationship? Or are you from the frame that if you just become a really interesting person, if you know all the psychology, it just happens organic and naturally as you go about your business?
Jermaine Edwards:
No, all of this has to be really intentional and you can definitely apply it into every aspect of where you communicate with your customers, whether that’s via email, via presentation webinar, whether that’s over the phone. In whatever particular modality you’re using, you can use this process I’m about to share to really begin to create consistency with the relationships that you have and deepen those more effectively as well.
Will Barron:
Amazing. And how… and let me just ask…
Jermaine Edwards:
[crosstalk 00:02:28].
Why You Need to Incorporate Relationship Building Into Your Sales Process · [02:30]
Will Barron:
Let me just ask you then. How, and I don’t want to dwell on this, I want to get into the psychology of it all, but how do we implement this into a process? Because I know if I don’t have a process, it doesn’t get done. This is as simple as that in my world.
Jermaine Edwards:
Okay. Well, really simply, it puts into kind of three specific phases. So we’ve all heard the adage of people do business with those they know. Like, and trust. The reality here is that although that’s helpful, it’s not actually useful or effective in helping us think through what we actually need to do practically. So here’s the framework or the process. So first of all, we need to think about the relationship as having a gateway into the mind and to the feelings and aspects of the customer. So the first thing is the emotional gateway and then the intellectual gateway and then the ethical gateway. I’m going to explain exactly what those things are. So the process here is, first of all, the emotional thing is showing that you care and are you a safe place to be. So why are you going to treat me like I’ve had people in the past treat me, or are you going to treat me like I want to be treated right there?
Jermaine Edwards:
So that’s the specific emotional or the… Not the emotional, I should say, but the emotional gateway. And then you have the intellectual one, which is around the credibility. So what’s the inherent value or the reward, the reputation, and the advice that I’ll get from you that’s unique and differentiated than anybody else. And then the ethical value or the ethical gateway, I should say, is about, are you somebody that actually is congruent with what you say and do? So are you somebody who is going to tell me the truth? Are you somebody who is respectful of me? And are you somebody who is going to take ownership of the problems that we face and potentially could face together? So when you think about those particular gateways, as I call them, then you can build that into your communication to share that with your customer on an ongoing basis to ensure that they are totally in sync with you as a person they want to do a relationship with.
How to Build Know, Like, and Trust During a Sales Conversation · [04:30]
Will Barron:
And when you say build into communication, is this a, again, a step by… I mean, we don’t need to dive into specifics, but is it a step by step process of cold email, one, demonstrates that you are trying to get on their level and build rapport so that you’ve got a feeling of safety? Is it like that, that it should be structured?
Jermaine Edwards:
So you’re doing all three simultaneously.
Will Barron:
Okay.
“Credibility is not about demonstrating the people that you’ve had success with, it’s about demonstrating the value you can bring to them that’s uniquely differentiated for them. So it’s not about bringing a case study about somebody else. This is about saying, “This is what I noticed about your business and this is how I see this particular service improving what you want to achieve and results you want to get.” Jermaine Edwards · [05:30]
Jermaine Edwards:
So yeah. So I mean, a simple example of that could be, so if I’m connecting to all three of these aspects, and we’ll dive into what that looks like from the psychology perspective, but if I’m going from the emotional perspective, all I’m saying in that is that I understand that. So using the words like “I understand” or “I get the feeling that” or “Could you explain to me how, why this matters so much to you here” or “What matters most to you in this particular aspect.” So really getting questions that help you to focus and help them to focus the lens on you as somebody who cares for them and showing less self-interest and more interest in them, just like we you mentioned beforehand. And then when you get to the intellectual, which is the credible piece, this is not about demonstrating the people that you’ve had success with. This is about demonstrating the value you can bring to them that’s uniquely differentiated for them.
“I believe 100 percent that every single person that really believes in delivering the best service for their customers has the moral obligation that if their particular offer or what the solution that this client is particularly looking for is not the best solution for them, then they should tell them that that’s the case. So, tell people what you are not and not who you are because that gives you a place to position yourself as somebody who is telling the truth.” – Jermaine Edwards · [06:03]
Jermaine Edwards:
So it’s not about bringing a case study about somebody else. This is about saying, “This is what I noticed about your business and this is how I see this particular service improving what you want to achieve and results you want to get.” And then with the ethical piece, this is about demonstrating that you’re going to be telling them the truth about what it is. So what I believe 100 percent is every single person that really believes in delivering the best service for their customers has to… Really has the moral obligation to say that if their particular offer or what the solution that this client is particularly wanting is not the best best solution for them, then they should tell them that that’s what the case is. So often in this place, I say tell people what you are not and not who you are, and that gives you a place to position yourself as somebody who is telling the truth.
Why The Current Sales Environment Is So Focused on Building Trust · [06:50]
Will Barron:
Okay. So let’s dive into the deeper psychology of this. I’m going to ask you a question that seems so simple on the surface, and it’s something that we all know, but sales have changed, and I’ll frame this better in a second, but sales have changed to put this into the spotlight, which is why we’re talking about it versus how things done in the past.
Jermaine Edwards:
Yeah.
Will Barron:
And it seems like so simple. It seems like we should all know it, but I don’t think people really think that step deep, and that is this focus on being trustworthy, being congruent, being… Using truth, as the word you described that came up a bunch of times then as you’re describing these stages. Why is, in the customer’s mind, why is all that important? What’s happening there? Because it seems like 20 years ago, sales is all about using weird manipulation tactics and weird phrasing of words and pushing people down a specific funnel and getting them to commit and not caring about buyer’s remorse and all these kind of things that come out of the other end of that. Why is it now that we’re focusing on building trust? What’s what’s going on in the psychology of the prospect or the customer’s brain that it’s worthwhile going for that?
Jermaine Edwards:
Yeah. Well, right now there’s a conflict between the behaviour, the current cultural behave norms of buyers, and what we instinctually experience as human beings. So what I mean by that instinctually as human beings, we have what we call fight and flight response, or psychologically now we’re talking about the three brains, the triune brain, which is our rational brain, the new brain, and then we have the limbic brain, which is the emotions, the seat of the emotions, and then we have the reptilian brain, which is the instinctive part of the brain, which is one where we usually associate kind of fight or flight or kind of freeze. But the behaved norms of what is happening right now and culturally for our buyers is that they’ve been bombarded with messages, bombarded within communication from so many different places that now they have to guard themselves even more.
“Unless we can really demonstrate that we are safe, we’re valuable, and we’re a credible place where buyers could go to get the result, then we’re never going to break through the cultural behaviour that’s being formed in buyers and the raised instincts that’s within all of us.” – Jermaine Edwards · [09:14]
Jermaine Edwards:
That particular reptilian brain or the safety part of the brain is protecting them more and more than ever because now they’re being bombarded with all these communications. So the brain is really feeling overwhelmed with the amount of information that it’s been passed through and so the instinctual part of our natural humanness in the triune brain, the three brains that we do have, is constantly going through a filter of first and foremost, is this safe? Is this valuable? And is this rationally helpful for me to take right now? And so unless we can really demonstrate that we are safe, then we’re valuable, and then we’re a place, a credible place where they could go to get the result, then we’re never going to break through both the cultural behaviour that’s being formed in buyers, but also the raised instincts that’s within us to protect our ourselves from the mean sabre-toothed tigers and things that are out there.
The Best Salespeople Immediately Put Their Buyers at Ease During a Sales Conversation · [09:58]
Will Barron:
So in the context so people can take something away from this episode, in real world terms, in context of the B2B sales professional who is listening to this, when they send that first… And again, there’s better ways to go about this. There’s other ways to go about this.
Jermaine Edwards:
Of course.
Will Barron:
But when they send, for example, that first old email, should they be looking to build that feeling of safety to show that they’re valuable versus, “Hey, my product’s going to do X, Y, Z, and save you some money.”
Jermaine Edwards:
100 percent. They should be going for safety immediately and creating that contrast. So immediately if somebody sees an email coming to their inbox, and we know this, the first thing we look at is either the name of the person or the headline or the first line of that specific email. So you have really three chances. If they don’t know you when that email comes through, they look at the headline to see if that’s anything credibly of interest, but then they’ll look at the first line, and if it sounds remotely salesy, that safety mechanism clicks in and they delete that email straight away.
The Power of The Human Element in Your Cold Emails · [10:45]
Will Barron:
So should we, and I know what your thoughts on this, Jermaine, but I want to just clarify that, so should we be trying to trick people into a conversation so we can be salesy down the road or should we just not be being that stereotypical sales person?
Jermaine Edwards:
Yeah. I think it’s just that. It’s just about human to human contact. So if we understand it from the context of, do you really want to help this other individual or are you pressured on the quota to make sure this email goes out? And I think we need to be cognizant of how we feel before we send out communication because it will impact and effect the types of communication we do put out and how the other person experiences it. So I think begins with a mindset of, has this email actually been written with the inherent need or value to offer value to this particular person? Or is this going out as a matter of course, and hasn’t been really thought about, and I’m under pressure now because I need to throw out this email to get some response or make quota?
Why You Need to Understand Your Selling Psychology · [11:55]
Will Barron:
Okay. Brilliant. So we’re going to turn the whole conversation on its head for a second and we’re going to talk about the selling psychology or the psychology of the person sending the email, the audience, the people who are listening to this now. I want to talk about the psychology of them within the customer relationship. How do we know if we are… because obviously becoming aware is the first step to making change. How do we know if we have, how you just described, that selfish psychology behind our actions where we’re just trying to hit quota?
Will Barron:
Because not too long ago… And when I first started in sales maybe seven, eight years ago now, that was what people… That’s what hiring managers wanted. They wanted selfish people. The companies that I’ve worked for in medical device sales, they would often hire ex-athletes and people of that nature who have that competitive nature who only care about winning for themselves. Is this a shift that we have to make to kind of become less selfish so that we win bigger overall? How do we know what’s going on within our own brains when we’re dissecting this?
“If within the first two lines of your email there are more I’s than there are you’s or we, then you’re probably on the wrong track. And if the email begins with something that’s about you and not about the other person, then you’re probably on the wrong track. If they don’t see themselves immediately as in the “What’s in it for me” early on in the communication, then it’s very unlikely that they’ll make any type of action or even read the headline again or come back to your email later.” – Jermaine Edwards · [13:00]
Jermaine Edwards:
Yeah, indeed. So I think it’s really important. I call it kind of the conflict between commission and conversation. And I think it’s… I think one of the checks that we can provide before we send out any communication is just that one question. So having a look at it, and if you’ve… If within the first two lines there are more I’s than there are you’s or we, then you’re probably on the wrong track. That’s to start with in your email. If the email begins with something that’s about you and not about the other person, then you’re probably on the wrong track. If you start the email with something that says something about your product or an offer that you are giving, then you’re on the wrong track.
Jermaine Edwards:
But if it begins with something unique about the customer, such as you noticed an article about them or you notice something about this on them on LinkedIn, or you notice they share something in the local paper, whatever that might be, it’s about them specifically, then you are definitely moving in the right track because most people definitely from a place of seeing communication come through, if they don’t see themselves immediately as in the “What’s in it for me” from that for early kind of communication, then it’s very unlikely that they’ll make any type of action or even read the headline again or come back to your email later.
Sales Psychology: The Conflict Between Commision and Conversation · [14:00]
Will Barron:
And what of the people who are listening to this now who are saying to themselves, “It all makes total sense. I understand that there’s a longer game and a bigger game here that perhaps if I put myself second and the customer first, I’ll make more business overall. I understand it conceptually,” but they’re also saying “I really want that Porsche at the end of the year” or “I really want this.” And the kind of the management is telling them and drilling down into them just make more calls and perhaps more selfish ways of going about business using weird kind of language patterns or anything like that to manipulate people. What do you say to them? Should they be using this as a tactic to lead their emails this way, or to have real success, do you really need to live it?
Jermaine Edwards:
Yeah. I just think you definitely… I mean, going down the line of my own thoughts, you definitely have to live this. Now, tactically speaking, you can just use these things and you’ll definitely start to get results. So I’m definitely not saying that, but I think eventually once you get into communication and conversation with the client, your true colours will show and they’ll see the incongruence over time, and what you don’t want to do is have a client or a customer feel like they’ve been hoodwinked later on down the line because you haven’t been upfront with them about who you are and what you actually do and what you serve right from the beginning. So I think it’s really important that you just demonstrate who you are. Now, if you are a jerk, then you’ll be a jerk, and if they like jerks, then so be it. But it’s important for you to be that person up front so that they can make the right choice for them as the customer.
How to Develop Conscious Awareness Around Who You Are In Sales · [15:33]
Will Barron:
And how do you deal then with the psychology of being a jerk? I know plenty of salespeople that I could use stronger words to describe them than being a jerk, but they’re successful because they, as you described, they’re congruent in that nature in front of the customer and the customer values perhaps not their personality or something that you could describe as jerkish, but they value that they are loyal or always on time, the product’s good, these kind of things that eventually add value and matter to the conversation. Should you be conscious and just aware that you are perhaps a bit of an asshole? Or again, should you go that level deeper and be trying to change how you are so that you come across better in sales?
Jermaine Edwards:
Well, it’s interesting. So I think it depends on what that is now. Now, is there a scale of jerkiness? Than perhaps, yes. So can you be more of an asshole than a lot of time? Probably, but I don’t know, so I couldn’t make that judgement . But what I would say is that if your particular arrogance or your particular approach is coming from place of you wanting to be superior to the other person, then I think you are in a real danger of damaging every single relationship you touch in the long term.
Jermaine Edwards:
But if it’s coming from a place of you just really wanting to get your point across, now, I’ve come across people who are really, really passionate and come across as jerks, but they’re coming from the intention of wanting to be good, but doing it in an ineffective way over time, and so what I say to you is where is it actually coming from? So is it coming from a place of you wanting to be superior, or is it you coming from a place of really wanting to communicate something of real value to the other person, but perhaps not using the best mechanism or communication to do it?
Will Barron:
And have you got any thoughts on this? Because I know exactly what you’re saying, this… When people think that they’re better than you for whatever reason, and it can happen in B2B, perhaps if you are super successful in business, in B2B sales, and you’re selling to someone that’s lower down the food chain or they’re not earning as much as you or… There’s loads of… And I’ll give you an example. In my last medical device role, there was a lad earning 100 plus K in Sterling, which is good for that kind of industry, and he spent a lot of time dealing with nursing staff that would be between 20 and 30 K, and he always looked down at the nursing staff, but he would suck up to the surgeons.
Will Barron:
In a lot of situations, the nursing staff, they were the people with the budgets, the surgeons obviously busy doing all the things, so the NHS system doesn’t want to put money in their hands and they’re more likely just spend on toys and crap as opposed to the nurses grounded in the bigger picture things because they’re seeing more… They’re seeing more [inaudible 00:18:13], operating rooms, they are seeing more stuff that’s going on within the hospital itself. So he would always struggle, and I tried to explain this to him once and he looked at me…
Why You Can’t Be Too Arrogant in Sales · [18:00]
Will Barron:
He was looking down at me thinking about it as I was trying to explain that you can have that air of arrogance if you’re extremely good at what you’re doing, but you’ve still got to be humble at the same time. It’s almost like you give a little bit of arrogance as long as you can give a little bit more humbleness at the end of the day or however you want to phrase it and describe it. So for anyone listening to this now who is perhaps other people have commented on them feeling that they’re superior or else would you describe it… Arrogant is probably another way to describe it. That might be an outward facing element to it? What should they be focusing on? Well, how should they be trying to change or should they just run with it?
“Your reputation will be damaged over time regardless of your results if you continue down the path of your superiority complex without an ego being checked in the process.” – Jermaine Edwards · [19:30]
Jermaine Edwards:
Well, I mean, ideally, like you said, the traits of superiority or ego, as I say, ego untamed, is a damaged relationship in the long run. And so more than anything, people who are of that nature typically value prestige and respect over anything. Now, if you’re somebody who values prestige and respecting your profession as you’ve been successful, then the key thing to realise here is that your reputation will be damaged over time regardless of your results if you continue in the same tracks you are with the superior complex without an ego being checked in the process.
Jermaine Edwards:
So it’s actually damaging to you later on and could damage the results that you have in the long run and actually employment in other cases, where I have in it happen where you’ve not necessarily been blacklisted, but customers talk, and you go to respective customers in different industries, try to sell the same product, it’s just not going to work. And so what I’d say is keep the skills that you have because obviously the skill of confidence and getting in front of people with the of energy that you have is a positive thing, but now think of it in terms of levels. So if you’re at level five and you’re pretty intense, then try going to level three with the same intensity and measuring the communication based on the person’s response and not your own feeling about what’s right.
Do We Need to Consistently Demonstrate Our Values and Virtues to Prospects and Customers? · [20:40]
Will Barron:
Cool. Okay. Let’s get real practical about this, Jermaine. What are some ways we can… Let me ask you this first. Do we need to demonstrate, do we need to proactively demonstrate that we are credible, that we are a safe bet, that we are congruent, that we’re telling the truth, that we’re selfless? Do we need to proactively demonstrate this? And then if we do, you can share some perhaps tactical and step by step things that we can do to put this into our workflow.
Jermaine Edwards:
Yeah, indeed. So I think this definitely needs to be something that is practised and demonstrated to your customer on a regular basis. So let’s just go through them really, really briefly. So from that emotional point of view or showing that you care, that you are a safe bet, part of doing that is by demonstrating empathy. So one of the ways we do that is simply by listening and asking questions, and we know this as a practise, but here’s the difference. What needs to happen is that you need to actually articulate the emotion that is both unspoken and unsaid. So for example, if you know that that particular person is in a department where eyes are being looked at them specifically over a decision, even if you’ve known this person for a very long time and they trust you, a really important step that you can make in empathy is just saying, “Hey, I realise this next decision is going to be big for you and your reputation may be on the line.”
Will Barron:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jermaine Edwards:
And just saying that alone and giving them a moment to respond, you’ll get them connected to you in a very different way because now they know that you understand and that because you understand, you will protect their interests. So that’s one particular thing. So being observant of the context and culture of where your customer is and ensuring they feel safe in the environments where they are being asked to make a decision with you on a particular project or subject. Now on the intellectual thing around your credibility, this is about the insight you bring.
Jermaine Edwards:
I talk a lot about adding versus creating value, which is totally different in my eyes. So the idea here is that in your interactions with your customers, you need to be bringing value not just about your own intellect, but it’s about the insight about your customers. What is it specifically that you know about your customers that they don’t know about themselves, but you’ve been able to observe that over time? And if you can bring that value credibly to the table, every time you’re in contact with them, they’re going to love you for it and get deeper insight and you’ll become somebody who’s irreplaceable to them because you’re bringing them unique knowledge that they couldn’t get anywhere else.
Will Barron:
And just to jump in, what’s an example of that? Because that is, again, and we cover stuff like this on the show all the time…
Jermaine Edwards:
Absolutely.
Consistent Value For Your Customers Means You’ll Never Be Replaced · [23:10]
Will Barron:
It’s one of those things that could be… It’s very easy to say. It’s very easy to go, “Yeah, I’m going to do that.” But then if you’ve not got some examples, it would perhaps be more difficult to implement. So what’s an example of that, Jermaine?
Jermaine Edwards:
Yeah, absolutely. So the first thing I ask people to look at is look at the buying patterns of your specific customers and then track what specific results have happened during those buying times and the people who have been using them, just those three metrics. Now, if you look at that specific data, what I tend to find people recognise is that the buying trends are based on specific people making decisions based on where they’ve seen results happen. Now, if you notice that there are different trends in results when somebody buys something or how they implement something, you can use it as insight to bring in a presentation to your customer. So it’s about paying attention to the behaviours that they adopt with you, seeing the positive trends or the negative trends that may impact their success, and then bringing that to them and presenting to them clearly and credibly, but also some with some courage as well because you may need to say some things that they may not want to hear.
Will Barron:
So can I wrap that up a medical device sales kind of example? And tell me because it might be way off here, so tell me rightly or wrongly.
Jermaine Edwards:
Yeah.
Will Barron:
Something that we used to do, if we implemented… So endoscopes, metal tubes to look inside the patient, for anyone who is not familiar, so you do for [inaudible 00:24:47] if you;re looking at knee joints, for example, things like that, anyone who plays rugby or football is probably more than familiar with this. So they are a quick procedure and a lot of the time, the NHS in the UK and the health system, the problem isn’t having enough equipment, it’s having enough equipment that isn’t broken. So we would implement a scheme. I would go in and do training in one hospital in particular, teach them how to handle everything and go from just the surgeons to the people who are carrying it around to the people who are washing and disinfecting it, and then it goes back to the surgeons at the other end, showing them how to check that it’s not been damaged throughout the process so they’re not opening scopes and other medical equipment needlessly because as soon as you open it, there’s a cost associated with all that and obviously it has to be processed again.
Will Barron:
So we would go in, and again, royal we. It would be me on a Saturday afternoon going in, adding value, as I call it. We’re going in and training all these people that are not buyers. They’re not kind of really involved in the buying process, but if they can look after the equipment, it means that they get a better return on investment of it in the first place. So that’s the example, but dragging that to how you’re describing, I would then take that data of a bit of training from me saved X many scopes, saved X many thousand dollars, which meant that they could increase the amount of scopes they could buy overall. I would then take that to other accounts in hospitals and give them that industry insight that they couldn’t get from anywhere else because it’s coming straight from the horse’s mouth. Is that what you were describing or am I totally off there?
Using Insights to Add Value to Your Customer Interactions · [26:21]
Jermaine Edwards:
No, no, no. That’s a really good example of that in action, specifically obviously taking that insight and then being able to translate these to other people. What I’m also adding to that is specifically about that individual company. So for example, if you know that they could… So let’s give it a really clear… Another example really, really briefly. So with a customer last year towards the end of the year, they were in a position where they were about to lose a $50,000,000 account and I was working with somebody else to do it. Now, what we recognised fairly quickly is the $50,000,000 account itself was demonstrating particular things in their behaviour that would have led me to believe that they were in danger much, much earlier.
Jermaine Edwards:
So what we did as well as helping them to support that, what we did is we looked at all the specific behaviour, the requests or communication and behaviour patterns of that particular CU customer, and what we could do was write down those specific triggers, what we call kind of the behaviour triggers of that particular customer. We put it into a specific diagram to say, “If you’re seeing these particular patterns with your customers in any other part of your business, you need to have a plan in place to support this because you may be in danger of losing them,” and what they discovered as they mapped this against their other customers is that they had another three or four potential customers that are in danger of leaving because of those behaviours. And so we’re able to take something unique that was for their business looking at the patterns of their behaviours of their own customers and use that insight that they couldn’t see to map it against other them is to protect them for later future business.
“When we’re talking about psychology, there’s probably more imperative and more end value to saving someone business pain versus giving them business pleasure.” – Will Barron · [28:33]
Will Barron:
I love it. This is a great example because I, on the show, I always… Maybe I’m just super optimistic, I don’t know, but I always focus when I give examples, anecdotes, and when I talk to obviously the guests and they give theirs, I always focus on positive ways you can add value. But what you just described is something that I probably never even really thought about consciously. I’ve obviously done it in practise, but you were taking a look at the negative side of things as well. And I guess as we’re talking about psychology, there’s probably more imperative and more end value to saving someone pain like business pain versus giving them business pleasure, right?
Jermaine Edwards:
Absolutely. There’s a lot evidence to show that look. Look at [inaudible 00:28:46]’s work and you’ll see that definitely people are more away from, in terms of influence, away from pain rather than going to pleasure.
Trustworthy Selling and Why It’s So Effective · [29:00]
Will Barron:
So we’ve covered emotional. We covered… I’m looking at my notes to say this. Intellectual. Ethical is something that I want to just touch on here. Are there any ways to demonstrate that you are trustworthy? And I like that word specifically because I think that is clearly missing from the stereotypical salesperson, the used car salesperson stereotype. So is there any practical ways or practical things we can put into practise other than just doing what you said you’d do on time, not messing people around? Are there any other ways that we can implement this to improve our trustworthiness in the eyes of the customer in front of us?
Jermaine Edwards:
This is going to sound counterintuitive, but transparency is a huge, huge thing in this particular area. So what I often say with people is in the areas when you’re speaking into customers, don’t just talk about the successes that you do. Talk about the things that went wrong and how you fixed them. So in this particular area, so I’ll give you an example, there was one particular rep I was working with here in the UK, fantastic guy, and what he recognised was with his customer, he was having some success with them, but things weren’t really going his way. Now, he was delivering results, but they weren’t really getting anywhere, and part of the reason, this is going to sound really counterintuitive, part of the reason why, when we looked at this, was that they didn’t actually trust them because they didn’t know how they would deal with challenges, with problems.
Jermaine Edwards:
So what happened was the customer was going to another provider with their problems because he hadn’t demonstrated that they could help fix challenges and problems in an account, in a relationship. So what we ended up doing was giving him a series of scripts that demonstrated what things went wrong with other customers that they had and how they fixed them. So for example, if I’m with a client and they’re asking me how things are going, I’d actually intentionally say, “You know what? We had a really interesting challenge with a customer. They had this particular challenge. We thought it was going to go really, really wrong, but then we ended up helping them do this and they got this specific result.” And they go, “Oh really? That’s really interesting.”
Jermaine Edwards:
And all of a sudden, I’m telling them something that’s vulnerable for me because it may not necessarily look good as me saying it, but actually it’s a real positive because I’m demonstrating something that I solved and didn’t cave into. So I’ve taken responsibility for that and they’re seeing all these wonderful traits of being trustworthy because I’ve demonstrated that I can be vulnerable with them and still give them a result that’s helpful for them.
Solving Problems for Prospects and How It Builds Buyer Trust · [31:37]
Will Barron:
Is this something, Jermaine, that can be strategically implemented, say like a month into the business relationship, everything’s going fine, and… I’m just coming up with this top of my head, so there’s probably a better way to implement it. But say a month into the relationship, everything’s going fine, you have a somewhat templated email or however you want to describe it, you have a case study is probably a better way to put it, that shows that you… Someone had a problem that you know happens around a month into the relationship, so then you are bringing it up, you showed how you solve it, and so you are mitigating that problem coming up with that customer before…
Will Barron:
It’s like objection handling in the relationship to deepen that relationship before it begin… So it’s not as shallow so that the first sign of a problem, they don’t jump to the next supplier as you described then because they just have this idea that the grass is greener on the other side and they’ve got that itch that they want to experiment with things. Can we strategically share a case study of how we solved a problem that kind of even… It could be every six months just to keep top of the mind in the prospect that you are there to solve problems when they arise versus the solution is to move to someone else. Does that make sense?
Jermaine Edwards:
It does make sense, and yes, you can put it in strategically. It’s not necessarily a case study because a case study usually assumes that somebody has come to you with a problem based on the solutions that you have already. What I’m talking about is actually sharing a particular challenge of somebody in the relationship already.
Will Barron:
Yeah.
Jermaine Edwards:
And then you solving that. So it could be as something as simple as we had this product which I know that you use and this person had some real challenges in implementing it, but this is how we solved it and if anything ever comes up, we know exactly how to solve it. And all of a sudden the mitigation of that is, “Oh, so we haven’t had any problems yet, but great. We know that if it does come up, they know how to solve it.”
The Most Effective Relationship Deepening Strategy · [33:50]
Will Barron:
Yeah. I like that. You’re pre-framing that you are the solution. That might be the wrong word in the word of psychology, but you’re pre-framing that you are the solution as opposed to that you’ve only got what you’ve agreed on at the beginning of the contract, that that’s the only value that you’re going to give. Are there any other ways to do this? Because I guess you can do it in conversation, obviously email, but there any other ways to implement this? Because I think this could be a really powerful relationship deepening tool as opposed to a relationship performing tool.
Jermaine Edwards:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there are tonnes of ways you can do it. So one of the things that I do is I do a quarterly report for my clients. So it’s to basically get a synopsis of what we did together. And what I actually begin with is actually the challenges we solved together. So I actually put that in there. So I say, “We had this specific challenge as we’re implementing this particular thing with this department, and this is how we solve this together.” And then I end with the steps that they can take in order to mitigate that against that in the future and I maybe have maybe two or three specific challenges that we actually faced and how we solve that.
Jermaine Edwards:
And that for me is a really interesting place because believe it or not, that’s the first thing they actually talk about when we come to that review. They’re like, “Jermaine, I remember that particular challenge and you did a great job solving it for us” or “I remember this particular thing. Oh yes, that was a challenge. Glad you kind of raise that for us so we can put in the things that you’ve recommended.” So you can actually build it into a quarterly report saying here’s some of the challenges that we noticed in our relationship this year and here’s how we solve this together.
Why Trust is an Integral Part of Building Relationships · [35:11]
Will Barron:
So could another way to describe all of this deepening relationships, all the psychology we talked about, could enough way to describe it to frame yourself as an active member of the team that is constantly part of the team and constantly interacting with them, is that a better, or not better, but is that another way to look at it perhaps?
Jermaine Edwards:
Yeah, absolutely. So you want to be forming this perception that they validate themselves that you are an integral irreplaceable part of their life and business. And so building in that expectation that you are that person is your role and not theirs. So the more evidence you can give them that you are that trustworthy person, just like we’ve mentioned, the more likely it is that they’ll refer you, that they’ll give you more business, pay a higher price for it, but more importantly, trust you with more of what they have that they may not have given you upfront to begin with.
Will Barron:
I love it because staying top of mind, you are demonstrating everything we just described, but you’re also, again, I don’t know any other way to describe it other than just kind of inserting yourself into their world on a deeper level. So it’s less about whether they like you. Here’s the best way to describe it. You’re documenting everything that you’re doing with them so that there’s evidence because I’ve helped customers… I’ve helped surgeons so many times.
Jermaine Edwards:
Yes.
Problem Solving Activities That Builds Trust with Buyers · [36:51]
Will Barron:
I’ve driven around the country and dropped off equipment on a Saturday morning or I’ve come in, as described forward, I’ve helped train the people that they don’t even know exist. They just get the equipment all sterilised and send it off all manky. They don’t care what goes on in between. But documenting this so that you could report back to them and they read it or they see it, that’s so valuable. I’m really, really excited about that. And just final thing on this from a strategic perspective, Jermaine, is quarterly perhaps the best way to go about this? Is that the best cadence that you’ve found?
Jermaine Edwards:
Absolutely. Quarterly is definitely best because you just need time to build up the case. On a monthly basis, it’s too frequent. It looks like you’re… The perception will be definitely different. But quarterly, you can build up the cases and over time it just looks better. It actually looks better when you present it back and you have your four, five things to talk about rather than one a month.
Jermaine’s Recommended Resources for Sales Nation · [37:34]
Will Barron:
Good stuff. Good stuff. Right? And that is something I’m going to look into deeper, and perhaps we can come on and you can give us… This might even be a good show in itself. You can give us what you put into these quarterly reports so that we can step by step build similar ones, but with our own, obviously, our own examples. And with that, Jermaine, I’ve got a couple questions that I ask everyone that comes on the show.
Jermaine Edwards:
Yes.
Will Barron:
First one, what is one book or resource other than your own that you think it will benefit The Salesman Podcast audience and especially on this kind of front of the psychology of deepening relationships?
Jermaine Edwards:
Yeah. So I think Denis Pombriant’s Solve for the Customer is a great book, and that’s definitely one to get into the mind of kind of customer success and how to really build structures and frameworks around your own communication.
Will Barron:
Nice. Well, I’ll link to that in the show notes. I’ll take a copy of that myself because I’ve never read that before. So I appreciate that one. It’s always good getting new books rather than the usual ones that everyone suggests, so I appreciate that Jermaine. And one final question for you, and it’s something that I ask everyone that comes on the show. You’ve answered this in the past, so it’ll be interesting to see if he answers any different now that we’re in the new year here.
Jermaine Edwards:
Indeed.
Jermaine’s Advise to His Younger Self on How to Become Better at Selling · [38:25]
Will Barron:
If you could go back in time and speak to your younger self, what would be the one piece of advice you’d give him to help him become better at selling?
Jermaine Edwards:
Yeah, so I mean, the first thing I’d say is focus on asking better questions. That’s it.
Will Barron:
And let me just test you on that one second one step deeper. How do you know whether you’re asking a good or a bad question? Is there a way to observe or is there a way to monitor the answer so that we can assess ourselves on that front?
Jermaine Edwards:
Yeah. As I think for me, this may sound counterintuitive, but if it gets you to the truth, then it’s a great question.
Will Barron:
Nice, Amazing. Clearly… I guess maybe that sums up the whole conversation. Jermaine. If you can ask the right questions at the right time and you’ve created enough trust in the conversation and the prospect or the customer can come back to you with real answers and they’re not faffjng around and they’re not trying to play games with you because they think that they’re negotiating…
Jermaine Edwards:
Exactly.
Will Barron:
It makes one, everything quicker, and two, that’s the level we should be playing in sales, isn’t it?
Jermaine Edwards:
That’s exactly it. I mean, for me, sales is… Being a great [inaudible 00:39:35] manager or anybody in sales is about not necessarily how quickly you can get to the truth, but it’s getting the customer to tell you the truth so you can help them best. And you can only really do that by going through the sequence of obviously getting them to know, like, and trust you through this particular process, but equally the quality of questions you ask helps to break through those walls much faster.
Will Barron:
Amazing stuff. Well, with that, Jermaine, tell us a little bit about where we can find out more about you, your website, and then also a little bit about your mailing list because I know there’s a tonne of great content in there for the audience as well.
Jermaine Edwards:
100 percent. So yes, just get over to jermaineedwards.com. The mailing list is now open. What I’m doing is all these specific ideas that I’m sharing, I’m now putting into a specific ebook, which I’ll be releasing next month. So you can get at all his content, specific scripts, guides all for free from my mailing list and only for those people who are on the mailing list. So if you’re not already subscribed, get up to jermaineedwards.com and you’ll get the details right there and then.
Will Barron:
Fantastic. So I’ll link to that in the show notes over at salesman.red, and Jermaine, I want to thank you again. Every time you come on, mate, you bring something new to the table and you… And honestly, you go one step deeper with a lot of questions that I ask than other people that talk on this topic do, so I appreciate this. You’re obviously well versed and well researched in it all, mate. So with that, I want to thank you for your time. I want to thank you for joining us on The Salesman Podcast.
Jermaine Edwards:
Absolutely.
